Disability Talks: Don't Dis My Ability
Disability Talks: Don't Dis My Ability
The Inclusive Public Space (IPS) Team is Making a Worldwide Difference
Are you a person with a disability, mobility challenges, use a stroller, or walker? Than listen in to find out this accessibility project is looking at accessibility across five countries to improve our lives in public spaces. Dr. Orchard, Dr. Eskyte, and Professor Lawson are working on a pedestrian accessibility project across 5 countries and need your input.
To find out more about our guest, visit these links:
Website: https://inclusivepublicspace.leeds.ac.uk/
Email: IPS.project@leeds.ac.uk
Expression of Interest form (for pedestrian participants): https://leeds.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/expression-of-interest_usa
Phone: 678-701-3771
Twitter: @IPS_Leeds
Facebook: IPS.Leeds
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Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shelly Houser. Join us for real conversations and no nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities, living their most independent everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility and independence. Where conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk!
Shelly:Today's guests are Professor Anna Lawson, Dr. Maria Orchard, and Leva Eskyte from the school of law at the University of Leeds in England. Professor Lawson is the joint director of the interdisciplinary center at the disability studies and principal investigator of the Inclusive Public Space project. Dr. Orchard and Dr. Eskyte are researchers working on the project. Their backgrounds are in law and sociology, respectively. All three of our guests research interests include disability, law and policy accessibility and inclusion and human rights. They are currently working on a project called, Inclusive Public Space; Law, university reality and difference in the accessibility of streets in partnership with the Burton Blatt Institute at the university of Syracuse. And that's where you, our listeners are needed. Join us today to find out more. Welcome ladies, how are you?
Anna:Good. Thank you. Very nice to be here.
Maria:Yes. Thank you so much for having us.
Leva:Q uite well, thank you.
Shelly:What drew you to the field of disability related law policy and advocacy?
Anna:Yeah, so, um, I became, I started to lose my sight at the age of seven and, um, so, and then gradually it was a gradual process losing it for, by the time I was studying at university, I, I I'd really lost all my useful vision. Um, so obviously I'd be navigating through life as a disabled person and I studied law in university and there was no disability law on the syllabus, nothing about disability really at that time. Um, and then, yeah, gradually when we started introducing disability discrimination law in the UK, I thought this is so exciting though. I can bring my two kind of life patterns, law and disability together. So that's, that's me.
Maria:Yes. Thanks so much. Um, so I come from, um, I I'm from the US uh, well, I'm from Canada originally, but I'm also from the U S and I went to law school there and my areas of interest is always public interest law, um, that type of thing. Um, but I never actually practiced. I was very interested in, um, human rights law, international law, um, equality non-discrimination I was, so I ended up doing my master's degree in Sweden, and eventually I ended up in Bristol where I did my PhD, um, in disability studies specifically on issues of access to justice, um, um, which brought together my interest in of, um, equality, non-discrimination law, and also disability studies. Um, I looked at the experiences of disabled women with legal systems in England and the U S u m, and their experiences with regional reasonable adjustments, accommodations, u m, so on and so forth. So for me, I'm coming to join the project was just a natural next step, u m, coming up to L eeds.
Leva:So my interest in disability and accessibility through the policy line, but then to get interrelated strands. And my primary professional background is in social work. And as a social worker, I was, I was always interested in how should society systems and relationships work so that they empower individuals, uh, that the empower individuals and war for the advantage instead of demand or expecting them to change in the situation of crisis. So, and the second strand comes from my work at the, um, academic network for European disability experts for the award as an assistant to professor[inaudible]. So the network supported the European commission and that you member stays by providing an independent, scientific advice, analysis and information on you and national disability policies and legislations, the width, and the depth of the network activities enabled me to understand how powerful policies and legislations are and can be in shaping people's lives. And so the synergy between, you know, my social work position, position as a social worker and the experience with a disability policy analysis, it brought me to Leeds to do my PhD, and I was really very excited to join the project because it brings, it brings together, uh, all my professional and personal values.
Shelly:So it seems like for each one of you, it it's meshing all of your, your life experiences and your professional experiences and interest altogether, and you've all found each other. Now, did you folks know each other before this project in any way?
Anna:Um, so I knew Leva, um, I was on the scientific board of the academic network of experts on disabilities that Leva mentioned, so I knew Leva's work well, and I knew that it was the reports from Lithuania were always excellent. So I, um, I knew Leva was very gifted from even that stage. And then I was lucky enough to be one of those supervisors when she came to do her PhD, but I didn't know Maria before.
Maria:No, but I knew you! So Anna's of course is published so reasonable assessments. A lot of literature i n the UK is Anna has quite literally written the book on it. So I was very familiar with her research and her work, and I used it a lot in my PhD. So, u m, great to be able to come up to Leeds some work with her.
Anna:Yes, Absolutely. Absolutely. It's um, it's a bit of a dream team actually, especially Leva and Maria have been there from the beginning and i t's, it's just been wonderful having them both.
Shelly:And it was kind of good because you already know each other's work a little bit and therefore collaborating on this project, it comes naturally. How did this study come about actually for your team, if you guys sort of knew each other's work already?
Anna:Well, Uh, a ctually yes, that was relevant. Um, b ecause I knew Leva's work and I knew Leva ha d a lot, a lot, you know, that was where her passions lay in accessibility. Um, a nd I was, I was also really interested in accessibility and the way the law and policy and personal experience interact with that. So I think knowing, Leva, if I was, there was something in the back of my mind or the front of my mind, actually in crafting the proposal that led to this project. Um, b ut wh at, so it came through a grant from the European Research Council, which, which I applied for, and I applied for it after spending some time as special advisor to a parliamentary committee in the UK, which was looking at this disability an d t he built environment and the way these parliamentary committees work in the UK is that there's a request for evidence that goes out. So lots of, u m, g eneral members of the public can, u m, s end their comments in to this committee. Um, t here were huge numbers of, of, u m, t estimonies that came in from, from organizations and from individuals particularly concerned with disability and older age to this, this inquiry. Um, u m, t hey were incredibly, u m, p owerful emotive, u m, s hocking, sad. I mean, I, I'm a disabled person and I' ve, I'm used to a lot of these problems, but sometimes hearing them from other people's perspectives and the impact it's had on their lives is, is, is, u m, i t takes you by surprise.
Shelly:You know, I, I can say we have the ADA law in America here for what, 31, 32 years. And just the other day I was dropping off a student of mine and it was in the park and there were some new, um, portable, portable commodes, loos in, in the, in the park, in the park, which is great, uh, for people that are walking and just have to go, they have little kids playing, but this goes back Anna, to what you're saying, it never ceases to surprise me that both loos or toilets were put in the handicap spot. And there's one of two accessibility spots. And I'm like, really? T his law's been around 32 years in America. I looked at my husband and I said, okay, well, I guess I have to call the township tomorrow and take care of it. And it's a head-scratcher.
Anna:It is. Yeah. And you'd think in a way it's an issue, you'd think we would have sorted by now, as you say, because we've had, you know, that law came about through a lot of campaigning as it did in the UK, in our equivalent, which particularly focused on transport issues actually in both cases and the built environment, and you'd think therefore that would have been sorted out before everything else, but it doesn't stay still. There's, there's always, it's a really fascinating, um, issue actually in one of the articles that inspired me, um, on this issue was the article by Jacob Tembrook who's, I don't know if you're aware of him, but he used to be the, the chair of the National Federation of the Blind in the United States. And he was also a wonderful legal academic. And he wrote a fabulous article in 1966, so that long ago on, um, the right to live in the world, which really looked at the way law. And that was before the ADA. So the way negligence, lawyer, you know, taught law, criminal law, shaped the expectations and the behavior of people using streets and cities and our project. It looks at equality, but it also looks at those other laws on the way they operate together and whether they actually undermine each other or reinforce each other in that the messages they're sending out.
Shelly:You talked about, um, involving other countries. So this is a worldwide project. That's actually looking at the differences in cities, around the world and the accessibility of the streets and transportation. Tell us what other countries have been involved i n for how long Maria.
Maria:Um, so the project itself started in early 2019, and it's going to run until late 2023. Um, and so, but our US-based, um, field work is probably going to be ongoing until late later this year, 2021. Um, so the five countries are the UK, um, the United States, uh, India, Kenya, and the Netherlands. So we're going to be talking to pedestrians and stakeholders, um, in each of these, in each of these cities, um, sorry, 10 cities in the five countries. Um, and then in the UK, just to focus on the UK and the US um, Leeds is one of our chosen cities, partly because we wanted to engage with our community we're in Leeds. Um, but also just, um, there's a lot of it's would be interesting for the project, given the degree of development going on, um, around the city, in an attempt to make it more pedestrian friendly. And then we also have Glasgow that we included in the UK and then in the US, um, Syracuse and Atlanta are two of our cities are the two cities, partly again, to engage with our community because we're partnered with the Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. We're also working with them the Southeast ADA center in the Atlanta area.
Shelly:Leva tell us about Atlanta and your involvement with Atlanta and Syracuse. What exactly, what type of persons are you looking to help with this project? What are you asking them to do and how can people get involved with this project for you guys?
Leva:So well looking for, uh, people in Syracuse and Atlanta who use streets and public spaces as pedestrians and experience problems and difficulties when using these recent public spaces. So, and these issues are particularly important to, uh, people with disabilities, including those using mobility scooters, uh, people with long or short-term physical or mental health conditions, learning difficulties, older people, pregnant females, as well as parents and carers who's journeys are accompanied by push chairs, buggies,,, wheelchair, small children, or disabled relatives. For example, with regard to problems and difficulties experienced when using streets, we have a very, very broad approach, and we are interested in the barriers that are not just physical or structural ones like potholes, or lack of cut curbs or an accessible street crossings for example,. While these types of barriers are important, and we are keen to talk to people who face them. We are also interested in emphasize in that actual barriers. So with regard to problems and difficulties experienced when using streets quite interested, we have a very broad approach and we're interested in barriers that are not just physical or structural ones like potholes, lack of cut curbs or an accessible street crossings for example. While these types of barriers are really very important, and we are keen to talk to people who face them. We're also interested in more interactional barriers, like pedestrians interaction with vehicles, with cyclists, with electric cars, with e scooters, as well as other other pedestrians. And we also came to hear from people who experienced some sort of situational barriers, so to speak like traffic noise or a lack of traffic noise, crowds of poor or absence streetlights and get certain times of day or seasons even. And also COVID. This pandemic has highlighted some very kind of problems and the problems that the project is dealing with because it affects how we interact with streets and public space, partially because there have been some rapid emergency measures put in place to allow more social distance into the place. For example, however, uh, often these processes do not involve consultation with disabled people's organizations and accessibility to provisions are overlooked. And as an example, more and more shops and cafes, leave their furniture outdoors, which often is problematic to people with vision and mobility can be elements as well as other people. In the same way, markings impact encouraging to keep encouraging, uh, keeping social physical distancing are often difficult to negotiate for people with vision impairments. So then often when people get in touch with us, they sometimes say that, well, these are the issues that I have to deal with when I'm out about out and about, but I'm not sure if they are significant enough for me to be involved in the project. So let me reassure that for us, every experience matters because the better we understand the situation or the more parts of the positive we have so to speak, the more likely we'll be able to develop, uh, output some tools that reflect the real situation and are useful, like cheating the change
Shelly:For our listeners. We will be posting all of their contact information on our show description, our episode description, so that you can look for it and find those hyperlinks right there already set. Um, Leva, this reminds a point that I was writing a paper recently and was reading that the Department of Justice here in the United States was informed to take down any formal pages that regarded disability accessibility or disability rights off the White House page back in 2016, when our then President Trump was inaugurated. In his last two years of presidency, there was an increase of 177% lawsuits to the ADA for lack of accessibility and those laws being upheld. And I found that to be a very sad but interesting statistic that in two years it grew 177% in lawsuits. It was over 11,000. And I'm very proud that there are those lawsuits because it means that we as a society, we, as a community of disability persons, uh, are, are fighting and we know our rights and we're exercising those rights and we are not intimidated or feel that we cannot raise our voices and be heard. Maria, what do you hope to find out with this study?
Maria:Yes, so we have, um, we actually have three aims or objectives. One of them is, is the experiential, and this is what Leva was touching on, which is, you know, we want to advance understanding of the causes and the impact of street exclusion. Um, so we want to understand what features are experienced as exclusionary and by whom, um, what, what, what the effect of these barriers has on the participants life or life of their child. So that involves, um, talking to our pedestrian participants. And then the another one is the perceptual objective, which is, um, to advance understanding of whether and why exclusionary public space is regarded as a minority issue and to foster greater awareness and solidarity. And I think this links onto what you were just saying about, um, the issues of accessibility, um, you know, moving away from this idea of it being a minority issue, um, and, and to, and to, um, impress the importance of the topic on the general public. Um, and we'll, we'll circle back to that objective. Um, later on, I'll talk to you about a little bit more, and then third objective is our legal objective, and Anna's already touched on this again, I'm talking about the legal context, but I am just going to talk to you a little bit more because it's really interesting in terms of advancing and understanding of how the law is being used and how it could be used, um, to make public space more, more inclusive and accessible. So in this regard, we're working with our country advisors. So we have our partner universities and country advisors in each of the five countries, um, developing legal reports. And so this is examining law, relevant law and policy on the national, local,state, or city level. And so this might include, um, any legal or policy initiatives that cover the issue of exclusionary public space. And so some of these laws include, um, non-discrimination and other equality based laws could be, could factor in here. Planning law, criminal law, um, not to mention a law of tort, negligence, which can be used for somebody who has been injured. A pedestrian has been injured, um, while using, walking on the sidewalk. We're looking at the different ways that, um, legal system was respond to city streets that are poorly designed and poorly managed, um, and also consider how these laws are being enforced. And how is the right of access to justice understood in each of the five countries? And then also asking how effective are different types of law when it comes to addressing and accessible or exclusionary streets, sidewalks, public spaces, I mean is the way to go, um, anti-discrimination law, uh, and could, could that go further in terms of ensuring equal access to streets? Um, and then, cause the ultimate, one of the ultimate hopes with this project and what we intend to do is to develop legal guides, um, so that pedestrians are aware of their legal entitlements and that they, um, have no practical tools, um, in terms of how to use those legal entitlements, how to enforce their rights.
Shelly:Are any of these, uh, countries eventually going to also be partnering with, or tying in with transportation systems and or top governor, government officials like governors or the president or prime ministers of these countries?
Maria:Oh, goodness. Well, that would be fantastic if it were to Anna, would you like to chime in here?
Anna:Oh, that's out ambition, but I don't know whether we'll reach it. And we're also working at the UN level. We, we, um, for all the countries, apart from the US have ratified the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. So we're working with at the government level through the international framework.
Shelly:So my other question is it's great that we're coming up with these anti discriminatory accessibility laws that you're hoping to develop through this. But how can we as a disability community tie into the able-bodied community and flip the script and educate them to understand how to, how to make them understand the importance of not parking in an accessible space,? Not parking there and just saying, you don't look handicapped enough to be using your blue card or your placard, you know, and I think it's a mental shift that able-bodied society really needs to have. And it's great to have all these laws in place, but look, what happened with the ADA. The ADA has been wildly successful, but when you look at title one, which talks about reasonable accommodations and hiring equal hiring practices for employment, for persons with disabilities, it's never been upheld. And I can hear time and time. again, like Anna was saying a person with a disability applied for a job. And in one, one young lady in particular recently said, the minute I stopped being proud of my mental health and wellness, and stopped mentioning it in interviews I got hired. And how sad is that? And what do we do to flip the script that able-bodied society learns to get it? Learns to get on board and, and uphold these laws, uphold these changes. And because it doesn't, you know, these curb cuts and these cobblestone streets don't just affect persons with disabilities and wheelchair users. It affects older folks that are able-bodied, it affects young mothers with strollers and walkers. It affects people with luggage. So how do we get them to see that there are over 61 million of us, and that we welcome a new person with a new disability at any time as Ed Roberts used to say,?
Anna:That's such a great question, Shelly, and that's, I think that's one of the, for the perceptual aim of the project that Maria was talking about. Um, it is,that ties into this, this question. Um, and we, we don't purport to know the answers. So we're, we're hoping to work with the people that we're interviewing to, to draw on their ideas, their suggestions, and we'll be using the, the film footage and the stories, the recordings of their stories, um, to put together films and podcasts and things to try and, um, give them a bigger platform for, um, telling people exactly this and the impact of it.
Shelly:This is a really big sticking point in bottom side. I would just tell you this! That as a person growing up with my own congenital disability, it's, it's something that I really think able-bodied society really needs to deal with and just get on board because they've had a very long time to deal with it and understand.(laughter).
Anna:(Laughter) It was a great question!
Shelly:I think with that, we're going to take a short commercial break and we'll be back
AD:Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania based, nonprofit organization dedicated to helping individuals with disabilities live their lives on their own terms. Abilities in Motion, strives to eliminate psychological stereotypes, physical barriers, and outdated attitudes that prevent social and civic inclusion as well as promote the independent living movement to empower, educate, and advocate for individuals with disabilities. For more information about programs and services, abilities in Motion provides call 610-376-0010, or visit our website at www.abilitiesinmotion.org.
Shelly:And welcome back listeners. We are here with Dr. Maria Ochard and Dr. Leva Eskyte at an Professor Anna Lawson from England. I wanted to start back with Leva. Leva, what key points have you learned so far? How long has this study been going on so far? And, u h, what have you learned so far to date?
Leva:So the project itself started a Yale in 2018, and then because of the pandemic, we had to rethink all of the methodology, the whole project itself, actually. So I think we started maybe a little like the actual field work, uh, around what like 12, 11 months ago. And so far, we, we, we've been working in two cities in the UK, two cities in the Netherlands and two cities in the United States, which is, which is Atlanta and Syracuse. And we have engaged with more than 100 pedestrian participants in total and these conversations, interviews, and stories that we had with people, they provided us with some emerging insights into their experiences of using streets, as well as very interesting, uh, resilience and coping strategies as well, the bad and the barriers fall under two broad categories, physical and structural ones like street furniture or limiting sidewalks or snow on sidewalks. Like for example, lot of Atlanta or underpasses that lack proper railings to protect pedestrians from motor vehicles or lack of accessible street crossings or like beeping streetlights. Uh, we also, uh, keep hearing about international barriers, like behavior of other pedestrians and interaction with Biko cyclists and, and, uh, now what's becoming more and more popular, uh, electric scooters. And so it's interesting that like each barrier is experienced differently by different, but by different people. And as an example at trash bin left on the sidewalk, uh, might cause, uh, injuries for people with vision, uh, and of course, wheelchair users and people with buggies to go on the road and risk and in some instances, even risk to be injured by vehicles or cyclists. So, and on the other hand. a bench In the middle of a pedestrianized street may cause inconvenience for a person with vision impairment, but at the same time, the same bench may provide a person with a mobility impairment and, or impairment with an opportunity to rest or relax after dealing with other street barriers that they have to face. Um, also, uh, barriers have different states of existing within time. Some of them are temporary and some of them are permanent. So for example, carrying out of furniture or roadworks usually look like people as seen as temporary barriers and lamp posts in the middle of the sidewalk is that permanent one. And the majority of pedestrians, especially in, i n, in Atlanta and, u h, u h, Syracuse, they find it easier to negotiate permanent barriers because they know that they always there, they know what to expect, and they know how to cope with them. The opposite situation is with temporary obstacles because they are unpredictable. One day a sidewalk is m ore t han accessible and the next day there's a poorly indicated hole in it as a, as a result of gas meter inspection, for example. And unfortunately these, these are the barriers. These t emporary barriers are the ones that cause the most, u h, of the injuries and accidents, u h, because pedestrians have no control over them.
Maria:We will be developing, um, tools and guides about, um, legal rights, legal entitlements, um, and, um, issues surrounding that. But as Anna mentioned, we're also going to be looking to produce tools and guides on strategies for activism and political engagement. And so to, in order to inform these tools, we are drawing on the experiences of pedestrians who have used the law who have engaged in, um, activism or advocacy, but we're also looking to connect with three groups of stakeholders. So these are lawyers as one group, um, planners and policymakers as a second group, and then activists as a third group. So for the lawyers, we're looking to talk to them about, um, what types of law they believe to be useful in terms of, um, enforcing the accessibility of public space. And, you know, in terms of bringing legal action to seek common compensation or redress, if injury or exclusion occurs, um, for planners and policy makers, we'd like to hear their thoughts on state or city laws and or policies that are aimed at making pedestrian environments, um, more safe and more accessible and how clear or effective, um, such laws and policies are. And then lastly, when it comes to activists, we'd like to learn about activist work, um, and mechanisms, strategies, tactics, if you will, that have worked in to, um, further the aims of the project to make streets and sidewalks and public spaces, more accessible and more inclusionary. Um, and also to, to, to see how we can foster shared concern about these issues, um, and to develop, you know, solidarity amongst the general public.
Shelly:Do disabilities discrimination laws in the US a nd the UK actually go far enough on the issue at the moment?
Anna:So, yeah, as Maria said, we've, we've had, um, extensive legal law and policy reports really from the US and the UK. And I'm actually going back to the reasons for choosing these countries. One of the reasons why I was really keen that the US should be part of it was because of the apparent effectiveness of the ADA compared with the, with the effectiveness of the Equality Act in the UK. So the, the enforcement machinery we have, the Equality Act is, is very strong in theory in the UK, but the enforcement machinery is very poorly resourced, and there's a lot of, um, disincentives and barriers around enforcement. And that actually came through in our work, uh, with, uh, pedestrian participants as well. I think very few of them would, would think about bringing the lawsuits under the equality act. Some of them have tried and had big problems and ended up losing, um, partly because of the complexity of the law and the difficulty of yeah. The difficulty of enforcing it and the difficulty of getting support with enforcing it. Um, so I think that's, that's better in the, in the US um, but the, our us colleagues who wrote the, the law and policy report for the US did draw attention to the fact that it could be better on enforcement, even in the US um, so that there were, especially at the local level, actually that's, um, often there's less access to resources or support for bringing actions at the local level, um, particularly in small towns and things, and there is in a bigger city areas or at the state level. Um, and I think, yes, the, obviously the, the other thing that the, the Americans with Disabilities Act, so good at is working with these accessibility regulations. Um, and we've got very, we haven't got any of those in the UK. We've got a code of practice, which gives general guidance, but there's, there's no enforceable accessibility regulations really in the UK. So again, we, we have a lot to learn, I think, from the US on this, in this regard. Um, but again, our US colleagues do attention to, to areas where the, it would be helpful to have more regulations, more guidance, and e scooters was one of those areas, actually, that there's nothing at federal level at the moment, um, regulating the use of e scooters on pavements and, you know, the storage of dockless e scooters and things on pavements. And we know that's causing a problem in some us cities as it is in the UK. Um, about fuss being a bit of a challenge for law across the globe. I think at the moment.
Shelly:Maria, I know that you're looking for pedestrians, especially in Syracuse and Atlanta to get in touch with you, but what other types of persons are you looking to interview in these cities here in the US?
Maria:Yes, I have one thing if I will, which is, I think Anna kind of touched on this, but also, um, you know, once later on in the project, um, once we're done with the work and we're done with the stakeholder events, we will be doing, um, community building events in each of the cities. Um, so we will, you know, we will be in Syracuse, we'll be in Atlanta, we'll be presenting the tools and the guides that we have developed from the project. Um, we'll be big. And so all our pedestrian participants will be able to bring them together if they so wish so that they can, you know, meet each other, but also that you can really see what we're doing and, um, and, and see where their contribution has, has gone and the types of, um, the types of, um, differences we're trying to make. Um, and also public lectures as well.
Shelly:Yeah. And it's a win-win it's, so it's a win for every country and every participant and it's, you know, not only for now, but for our future generations of persons that need accessibility. So what's next for this project once you're done wrapping up and interviewing everybody?
Anna:I think some of that work that Maria has just mentioned. So, so really, um, well obviously we want to produce academic papers and really dig into the findings that we were getting, but we want to yeah. Make it put together films, um, podcasts, uh, virtual reality films, which will also show in, uh, we have a pedestrian simulator in the university. So it was like a, a cave experience. So using some of the video footage and stories for that. So various awareness raising, um, tools that we want to produce, but it's not enough to produce them. It's, you know, we, we want to make these to make a difference, and that will only happen if we, if we really have, um, buy-in and support and collaboration, um, from our participants on the wider networks.
Shelly:Leva, I wanted to wrap up our podcast today and find out where can our listeners learn more about this project and how to connect with all of you on this project?
Leva:Uh, one of the ways is to check about our website, which is Inclusivepublicspace.leeds.ac.uk. Um, also people, uh, can, uh, email us and our email address is, uh, IPS.project@leeds.ac.uk. And the third way people can get, can get in touch with us, they can call us or message us. Uh, and the phone number is, uh,(678) 701-3771. And when it comes to, uh, all the arrangements, we are flexible and we'll accommodate as much as possible.
Shelly:Yeah. Did you mention, and do you have a Facebook page on this as well?
Leva:So our Twitter is IPS_Leeds and our Facebook page is called IPS.
Shelly:I think that wraps up our show for today. Thank you so much to Leva, Anna and Maria for being here from Leeds in the UK to teach us about this program and the importance of accessibility worldwide. Thank you so much ladies for your time.
Maria:Thank you so much for having us.
Anna:Thank you, Shelly.
Leva:Thank you, Shelly it was a pleasure.
Shelly:Thank you. It's been my pleasure. So for our listeners, thank you for listening worldwide, and don't forget to hit that Like and Subscribe button, so you never miss an episode of DisAbility Talks.
Outro:Thanks for tuning in to this episode of disability talks, want to keep the conversation going? Then visit our website at Abilities in Motion.org, or connect with us on social media. And remember don't dis my ability.