Oliver Lam-Watson - Paralympian Wheelchair Fencer

Great Britain Wheelchair Fencer Oliver Lam-Watson features on this episode, the second episode in our double-episode coverage of the 2020 Paralympics! In this episode, Oliver and our host, Shelly Houser, discuss stigmas against individuals with disabilities and Oliver's journey to the 2020 Tokyo Games.
 
 If you want to hear more about the 2020 Paralympic Games, check out our first episode from August 13th where we interviewed Mary Hodge and Nina Kult from Team USA's Para Powerlifting team and Goalball Paralympian Zach Buhler.
 
 Celebrate these incredible athletes with us and witness history as the 2020 Tokyo Paralympics will be broadcast during daytime and prime time hours on major network channels.

To find out more about our guest, visit these links:
YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/c/OliverLamWatson
Twitter:  https://twitter.com/oliverlamwatson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oliverlamwatson/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliver-lam-watson-711a48165/

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Transcript

Intro: 0:05

Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shelley Houser. Join us for real conversations and no-nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities living their most independent, everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility, and independence. W here conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk.

Shelly: 0:32

Welcome back. Yes. And today I am your host Shelly Houser for an extra special show from Oliver Lam-Watson. He is Great Britain's Wheelchair Fencer, and he is joining us to talk to us about his plans and his journey of the Tokyo 2020 Games. Good afternoon. How are you today?

Oliver: 0:49

Hi there. I'm good. Thank you so much for having me, really appreciate it.

Shelly: 1:00

Absolutely. I wanted to start with you. So congratulations on getting to Tokyo 2020 Paralympic Games. How does that feel?

Oliver: 1:07

Thank you so much. Um, honestly amazing. I couldn't quite believe it. I remember when my, when my coach told me, I kind of said a naughty word and I was like, shut up. And he was like, congratulations. I was like. I was like, shut up. Like this isn't real. I was like, even like right now, I don't know if you guys can see I'm getting like goosebumps even like remembering it, it was, um, it was honestly an insane experience and, and, and to kind of for all my hard work over the last couple of years, um, cause I sat out obviously years ago with this pipe dream of I'm going to go to Tokyo and everyone was like, cool story. You can't just take up a sport and go to the Paralympics. And then for it to actually happen, isn't it, it was insane. It was amazing experience to, to, to qualify and, and hopefully the best is yet to come.

Shelly: 1:53

Where were you when you, when you found out were you in the gym training?

Oliver: 1:57

So we were actually at a camp together, the whole team, um, and they kind of took us one, one by one, um, from what we had a little meeting and they took us outside one by one to tell us, um, and yeah, it was honestly sat there at that meeting. I was, I was, uh, I was shaking. I was so, so nervous about the whole thing. Um, and my teammates obviously they've actually qualified already, but they obviously wanted to know whether or not I qualified. So they were nervous for me. And it was a really kind of very nice, um, kind of cohesive team experience, but very, very, I wouldn't recommend it. My, my nerves were a bit shot after that.

Shelly: 2:36

We are very excited here in the States to follow you in your journey and, uh, and hope you reach your goals with, with your team and, and have good success and good health.

Oliver: 2:46

Thank you.

Shelly: 2:46

Yeah. So tell us more about your sport for our listeners who may not know what this is and how hard you've been training.

Oliver: 2:53

Yep. So I'm a wheelchair fencer so you guys actually have a wheelchair fencing team. I'm actually really good friends with a couple of the guys on your team. Um, and so a bit about wheelchair fencing, uh, I guess the first couple of questions everyone asks me, um, like the FAQ's are, how do you move the wheelchair and fence? So that's a common misconception. You don't actually move the chair that both, both chairs are locked into, into a frame. So both fences are locked into a frame and then you fence using your body for the movement. So there's no actual movement in the chair and the bum stays on the seat. Um, but the movement comes from the torso. Uh, the second one is, do you get double points for hitting the head and where are the target areas? Um, so there are three swords pay for it and Sabre, uh, not to get too confusing about them, different target areas and different rights away. Uh, so some of them, you must hit with the priority we call it. And the other that you can just hit whenever you, whenever the timing is there. Um, and so I turned those weapons, usually wheelchair fencers do two weapons, able-bodied fencers traditionally do one, they focus on one. Um, and so, yeah, I've basically been training really, really hard. I started three and a half to four years ago coming up to four years and basically, yeah, I've been training full-time since that, I remember when I started, I just hit the ground running. I trained full-time like a, like someone who's been doing it for years. Like someone who's a professional athlete when I first started,'cause I was like, if I want to do this, I need to, I need to put everything into this. I don't want to just do it on the weekends for fun. I want to make sure that I do it a hundred percent.

Shelly: 4:28

Why did you choose this sport?

Oliver: 4:31

That's a really good question. Um, I basically, when I was looking for a sport, um, I knew that I didn't want to take something up and just do it for fun at the weekends, you know, a Sunday kind of league. I wanted to do something that I could really push 100% and to get to the top, I gave myself after I finished my master's in architecture, I gave myself one year gap year to, to pursue this because I, you know, obviously architecture is a big, uh, step away from, from sport. And so I gave myself one year to see how far I could take it. And then I wanted to evaluate whether or not to continue or to go back to architecture. And so I basically picked a sport where I felt like I could get as good as possible as quickly as possible and a sport I thought I could enjoy. And so fencing, I mean, you know, um, I'm like pretty much most young people and I always love swords when I was a kid and I love the ferocity of it. I'm the kind of, it's very classy. There's a lot of respect in the sport, but also it's not just about physicality. It's about timing, precision, technique, uh, tactics. So there was, there's so many levels to this sport, and I felt as though it was something that I could really throw myself at and actually due to the multitude of levels within the sport, the complexity of it, I felt as though I could approach it from a different angle, train differently, fence differently, come into the sport as a bit of a disruptor, because I knew that I wasn't going to be able to get better than everyone else by doing the same thing. I knew that I needed to train differently. Be different in order to get ahead.

Shelly: 6:03

Yeah. So the little child in you feels like you've grown up to be a pirate.

Oliver: 6:08

Yes.

Shelly: 6:08

Very cool. I took fencing in college for a year and with my prosthetic, I had to be a left-handed fencer and I found that to my advantage. So it was really, really good.

Oliver: 6:21

Yeah. Left-hand is a pretty hard to fence sometimes.

Shelly: 6:25

So before COVID, did you have really big challenges trying to practice from home with the shutdown. You posted a lot of your frustrations on your social media, which I found interesting. What kind of supports did you get from the team and from your teammates and how did they keep you guys connected and keep you moving forward in this last year and a half?

Oliver: 6:46

Yeah, it's a really good question. Um, I think locked down was really tough for everyone. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't, I've only been fencing for about three and a bit years. So at the time it was about three years. And so for me to have this extra year, it was almost like a third of my career again. And so I really tried to utilize that time to get as much training as possible. I was running every week. I was like about 20, 25 to 30 K a week, which is much more than I usually do. I was going to the gym a lot more training from home. I was keeping my kind of techniques still as much as possible that you can do from home. But nonetheless, it was, it was obviously a very tough time psychologically and physically. I was quite lucky physically that I was able to train myself, which meant physically my, my kind of fitness level is really went through the roof and actually put me on a really good platform to hit the ground running when I started again training, uh, just after the lockdown. But psychologically, obviously it was a very tough time for any athletes. Um, I tried to kind of put those up in my mind as much as possible, but you know, there were times at which I had to take rest, I have to take breaks. Um, we had a weekly catch up with our team, uh, basically over Zoom and stuff like that. Just to basically see where we were, see what the news was happening about Tokyo. Obviously at the time we didn't know if it was going to be postponed or canceled or whatever might happen. So there was a lot of uncertainty. Um, I think throughout we just made the decision to just train as though it was me to kind of put into, we were ready as opposed to, uh, you know, it happened that we weren't ready.

Shelly: 8:24

And then it's good that you pushed forward because here you are. And you're all going to the games and it's going to be fabulous. So congratulations. Have you been watching the regular Olympics where they're with the athletes and what do you think of Simone Biles and the supports that she's been receiving worldwide?

Oliver: 8:40

Yeah, I've actually been watching a lot of it. For me, I love I have on the background now, as you can see, I'm an, and when we're training in the salad, we've got it on, always in the background. I think that's the commentary, seeing the athletes, they're seeing the people in the village, but on my social media and following a lot of athletes, it's getting us going a lot. It's getting me kind of really excited. It's getting everyone a bit more like in the mood for it. I think it's been a really difficult Olympics and Paralympics this year, 2020 Tokyo, because there's not been the same amount of buildup. Um, and it's been a lot of uncertainty. So I think this sort of build up by watching it by experiencing it has been really, really important and yeah, regarding Simone Biles, I think honestly, it's, it's so, so strong what she did. It's really difficult. I think for every athlete psychologically and a lot of people, uh, obviously I've never been to a game and I'm not at the level that she is, but all I can say is from, from where I sit, coming into the sport, fairly new, I can see, you know, the juxtaposition with what people see athletes to be like and actually what it's like to be an athlete. I think there's this kind of misconception that athletes are, oh, you know, you get to do sports all the time and you get to get paid for it. And it's really easy and you can eat whatever you want and you look great all the time, but actually there's so much that goes into it. And that's part of what I try and do with my social media is, is show the bad times. I think they're so important to show the journey, show the up, to show the highest or the lows, because I remember when I was coming into it, I was younger as well, growing up with a disability. I see these athletes on the TV and there's this huge kind of gap. This vast chasm between where they were, these amazing heroes and where I was as a young person. I didn't see any of the behind the scenes, how I got there and actually how difficult it was because a lot of people that try sport, they think, oh, I'm really good at this. I'm not enjoying it. There's not, for me. I'm not, I'm not like an athlete. They all obviously enjoy every session. They kill every session. They're really good at it. It's not the case. Actually. I spent half of, most of my time being like, I suck at fencing, I'm so bad. I'm not enjoying this. I did this training session today was crap. And I feel like I felt awful, but you push through those times for the good times. And actually overall, hopefully it then kind of pays off it's this, the perseverance. So I can really empathize with Simone Biles and actually what she, what she might be going through. Obviously not, not to, not to the same extent. Cause she's, she's in a different part of her journey to me, but it's very, it took a lot, obviously it's very strong of her to do that. And it's great that everyone's supporting us so much because psychological health is, is huge. And you know, you see these athletes and I actually just watched a lady doing the long jump and there's a lot of pressure for her to do a well a, um, a world record and she couldn't do it. And then when she had already got the first place, but she still had one job left and she was a little more relaxed, psychologically. She went and she smashed the world record by about, you know, by, by a margin. And I was thinking, gosh, it just shows you how it's so it's not about the physicality because everyone that competes to the Olympics and Paralympics are so strong, so physical, so good. But actually a lot of it's on the day is who mentally can do it. So it just shows how much of a psychological aspect there is in taking part at that high level. So, you know, respect, respect to Simone. And, and I hope, I hope she feels a lot better soon. And obviously, you know, I think it's definitely the right thing she did.

Shelly: 12:11

Yeah. I agree. Thank you. So I know we saw, um, an Australian female swimmer just smashed the world record and it was so beautiful to see not only her Australian teammate, but some of the US that were competing against her, come in and hug her and celebrate her. And yeah. And that sportsmanship is really what the Olympic games traditionally are all about.

Oliver: 12:35

Yeah. And also it's funny because I guess, you know, you see them competing and as a, as a watcher, you kind of think, oh, why are they caring for each other? But actually I can say from the inside, like we see each other a lot at world cups. So there is that sort of camaraderie we do as athletes want to see each other do. Well, obviously when you're fencing against someone, you know, for example, if I see someone who's just wanting to gold in, in, in fencing, as long as, you know, I'm not fencing them at the time, I'll say, you know, well done well done for that. And I, when I, when I do well, a lot of the other fences that come and they say, well done to me. So it's a very nice experience.

Shelly: 13:11

So you go in kind of knowing and supporting each other, no matter why, because it's the love of the sport and the respect of the sport and not my country is better than yours or vice versa.

Oliver: 13:21

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of that. And I think as well, you know, you need to sometimes put that aside when you're actually fencing someone, you need to go out there to win. And at the end of the day, we're all here to all the athletes, they, they, they go there to win, they don't go there just to take part. So, you know, there is a respect. So throughout I think.

Shelly: 13:40

Yeah, moving on, you've actually struck quite a few great partnerships and corporate sponsors over the last year or two. Tell us more about that and how have they helped you and your brand get you and your goals to Tokyo this year?

Oliver: 13:55

Yeah. I, I'm quite fortunate though. A couple of cool brands that have decided to get behind me, which yeah, I think is brilliant. I really kind of, it's been an amazing experience. I did a couple of a couple of things with Nike, uh, in terms of a shoe and actually I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, but I might have something in the pipeline coming out soon. So keep an eye for that. Um, uh, yeah. And then a couple of other supplement companies, you know, shout out Bolt. They they're one of my sponsors they're really, really good guys. Uh, I also actually have here at glove, uh, kind of a kit sponsor. These guys are great. So they've made me a kind of a glove specific with my name on it and the, and the logo, especially for the Paralympics. So yeah, I think, um, I guess I got a bit of a different view towards kind of sponsorships that a lot people have. I like to kind of surround myself with, with cool brands with personalities, um, brands that kind of, they don't just want to meet that market target, but actually brands actually want to progress a sport to actually to make social change, to, uh, to actually help an individual and get behind people and characters to build a brand build, because I think that's great at the end of the day, that's what we were trying to do. And, um, so I'm really lucky to be associated with a car with really, really cool brands. And yeah, I guess it's not for lack of trying. I remember funny enough, cause I guess one thing that I would always ask is how do you do that? Cause I meant when I was younger and starting out, that would be a dream for me. And I'm very fortunate to be in a position now where I'm doing a lot of those things. I remember when I first started, uh, I looked back at my emails recently and I was emailing like Red Bull and Nike and Adidas and everyone being like, hey guys, uh, I've just started fencing. I'm a disruptor. I want to come in and change the sport. You know, I want to, I got my sights set on to Tokyo 2020, would you guys want to get behind me? Uh, and obviously everyone emailed back saying no or ignored me that it's just amazing to kind of see now, like the kind of looking back on it, they kind of yeah, naivety, but actually having that naivety and that confidence and that kind of not caring to be, I didn't care about being rejected or failing. And that's something that I've always been quite fortunate about. I don't mind failing and embarrassing myself. So I was emailing all these big brands and yeah so, you know, just, just, just a piece of advice I'd say to anyone is just get out there and do it. Just, just message people don't, don't worry about about, uh, oh, the worst they can say is no, basically.

Shelly: 16:31

Right, right. Perfect. And I think with that, we're going to take a short commercial break

AD: 16:36

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Shelly: 17:25

And we're back with wheelchair fencer, Oliver, lamb, Watson.

Oliver: 17:28

Hello.

Shelly: 17:29

So good to have you today. Will you have time to practice once you get to the Games? And what goals do you and your team have for Tokyo 2020?

Oliver: 17:38

Yeah. So, um, the schedules, yeah, the schedule is really tight, but we're going out there a little bit early in order just to kind of, um, acclimate. Yeah. We will be having a kind of holding camp, which every, every sports, every country has their own holding camp. And then you go into the village and you're training throughout. But I personally find that I don't like to train too close to the competition. I like to take a couple of days break. So what I'll be doing is very light training in the lead up to the actual competition.

Shelly: 18:07

What are your goals for you and your team once you get there?

Oliver: 18:10

Yeah so obviously my two, uh, teammates that, that are world number ones, they're very, very good. They've got a lot of mental expectations on that act. This is my first games. This is obviously, I don't have the same expectations as them. Hopefully one day, hopefully looking towards Paris, I will do as a team though. We've definitely got a fighting chance of a medal we're ranked fifth at the moment. And I think we're coming into this pretty strong. We medaled back in the world championships, uh, just before COVID in Korea. And you know, we came third there and that was brilliant. It's the first medal that the British team have ever taken at world championships. So that's, that was insane. And since then we've made a lot of improvements. We're feeling strong, we're feeling fast, we're street, we're feeling, we're feeling dangerous. So I feel like we got a lot of, um, kind of potential that, but I think individually, my goal is just to go out and give it a hundred percent. I want to walk away from it and having no regrets. I want to, to know that I left everything on the table, I left everything on the table. I'd put, I'd put my all into it. That I can look back and say, I gave it everything. Even if I come last, I gave it everything. Cause that's all I can really do on the day

Shelly: 19:23

You got yourself to Tokyo, which was your main goal, right? And you've gotten your sponsorships that have helped you get there and build your brand and build that community of support. And you've always got your hand in something. So what's next for you after Tokyo?

Oliver: 19:38

So these are not really my goals. I wouldn't really even say that I was the athlete, to be honest. Yeah. These are goals along the way. These are like kind of stepping stones for me, the goal. And it always has been from day one, when I started this, has been social change and social change and being a disability advocate for me, I want to make content, I want to change the world that we grow up in whereby the young, the young me who grew up with a disability with no role models, with no support, no o ne to talk to, not understanding what it meant to have a and thus having to sort of lie about it and say that I just hu rt m yself an d I'll be better soon and have a lot of kind of self-conscious, se lf-esteem i ssues on my, on t he way I look the way I am. Uh, I want to change that. I want to stop that. Um, I didn't even know the disability parasport was a thing until fairly late on, otherwise maybe I wo uld h a ve s tarted earlier. I want to change that. And I want to kind of, you know, I' ve g ot a very aggressive, I guess, u h, a pproach to social change, which is kind of, I like to show, I like to do. I don't like to sit and tell people, oh, you guys should treat disabled people equally because at the end of the day, no one listens. So I f ound that it's m o re d ifficult. In fact, actions speak louder than words. And I think that's a really, really true sa ying. And so I go out th ere, I try and show people with my content, with my, with my media, the whole, th e w hole fencing thing. Part of it is because when I was making the decision to amputate my leg or not, my doctor told me it d oesn't matter either way, whether you live with it on crutches or yo u a m putate i t b ecause you wi ll n ever run or walk again normally be cause o f your condition, you will never be an athlete. And so this is, this is a product of me being very carried away and not ever being wanted to be told what I can and can't do. And so this is almost a way of me showing people. You tell me, I can't, we ll, look, I can. No, you can't be an athlete with a disability. Well, if you qualify for th e P aralympics, you can, u h, a n d I want to show people that any, like, you know, I'm not saying everything is possible be cause I really hate the phrase of like, you can do it. Yo u c a n, if yo u h a d t he right mindset. Ca use y ou know, it's not always the case, but the only way you'll find out if you can or you can't do something is by doing it, you be the judge. If you tell me you can't run up th e s tairs or y ou can't be an athlete, that's th e d ecision that you've made, but never let anyone make that decision for you. So th at, that for me is the goal, I think. Yeah. I wouldn't even stuff like that. So, u h, s o I think, yeah, I ki nd o f g ot carried away essentially.

Shelly: 22:16

Yeah, no. And, and, and I think that's how and why I really wanted to connect to you on a personal level because we've discussed this over, like over the years that I went through the same thing when I was your age. Now, you know, and I'm, I'm, I have kids almost your age and it's, it's very frustrating to see. You can tell your story and you can believe in yourself, but when society tells you, no, you can't and they don't want to hear it. It's completely different. You know, now we have girls with disabilities. Now we have athletes that are going to be on prime time television for the first time in history, which is so huge for us in our, in our community. So, so we can show other kids younger than you and I, that we are vulnerable and, and that we can do things if you put your mind to it and you have the right support of a community. Um, and that's, that's so important. One reason that you and I connected a couple of years ago was over what you call blue cards. We call them our accessible parking passes. You know, I want you to tell me about your frustrations that you and I both share on that actually the meaning behind your Nike sneakers, because I'm wearing them today. Because I thought when you created those Nike sneakers a year ago, I thought the meaning behind them was absolutely brilliant.

Oliver: 23:40

Thank you. Thank you for that. I'm happy you're wearing them. So yeah, I, I think a big thing for me, uh, one thing I really noticed, um, is, is blue badge, uh, kind of discrimination. It's just something that's really obvious, that just is, is so bad. Uh, I I've experienced it so many different ways of like, for example, I remember I was driving with my friend once and we go through the car with very young, uh, we look young looking, uh, she's got one leg, uh, I am on crutches obviously, we are driving and we say to someone, oh, we need to, can we get through the barrier? We need to use blue, blue badge bay. And the waters said no. And I was like, oh, why not? They're like, because it's a blue badge, but you need to be disabled. And I said, well, how do you know we're not disabled? And he said, because you don't look disabled. And I was like, what, what does a disabled person look like? And it really is. It's that story. And it's happened so many times I pull up on my own. You can't park, you don't, you know, it's a blue badge, but you can't park there. Why not? Because you're not disabled. How do you know, what does it, what does it say a disabled person looks like? And they usually at that point, just kind of go, okay, you're too either or they'll say you're too young to be disabled. I'm like, well, yeah, what does that mean? Um, it really annoys me because it's this, it's this idea of what you, you don't look disabled, which, which obviously gives the idea that there's a disabled people must be a certain way. It's this perception that society has of what a disabled person is or should be. And when someone doesn't fit into that, even if you saw the whole of me on crutches, some disabilities are not visible. You know, some are invisible disabilities, you know, I'm sure with yourself, if you wear long trousers, you wouldn't be able to tell, and then you, but at the same time, you shouldn't have to pull up your trousers and be like, hey, let me prove my disability. Cause it's my medical condition. It's your medical condition it's private stuff. We shouldn't have to prove our disability. And I think that's, that's so horrible to, such a personal thing. And again, coming back to it, it's this idea of what a disabled person should be. And I thought we'd really left that behind us in some kind of old sexism and homophobia, telling people what they should be, telling different parts of society, how they should look, how they should act and how they should be. It's just bad. It's just outdated. It's old fashioned. I get a lot of it. I'm very fortunate that I'm able to drive a very nice car. Um, and I put my blue badge up on that from the other side. Now people are like, ah, you see that blue badge on that nice car? That must be fake. And I obviously could let it look. I look quite young and I don't, and I have my crutches. People don't assume it's mine so I can sit sometimes in the coffee shop that I go to, I sit opposite my car, having a coffee, and I'll see people standing next to me outside being like not knowing that I own the car being like how ridiculous is that look at that blue badge on that car is clearly fake. You know, if he can get that car he can clearly afford to pay for parking. And it's like, first of all, blue badge is not just for free parking, it's there for accessibility. Why is it if you see that blue badge on a terrible old banger of a car, it's fine, but on to be on a nice car and a new car, that must be fake. So for me, it's just the idea that people in society see disabled people and disability on a lower social standing. So when they see a blue badge on a nice car, you can, you know, people in wheelchairs could drive Ferrari's if they want to, they can have the hand controls. When they see that they think that a disabled, personal doing better than me? Earning more than me affording a nicer car than me on a higher social standing than me. This must be fake. This can't be real because disabled people are, are lower. They're unemployed they're bad, uh, they're unable. How can the disabled person possibly be doing better than me? It's I, and it really like messes with their head. And that's why they're like, oh, it must be fake. It's a scam. It just, as you can tell it really annoys me, it really, really annoys me.

Shelly: 27:44

And it does cause really, like you said, it's, it's their personal business. It's none of society's business. And for them to continue to assume that we can't be as equal or better on a socioeconomic level is ridiculous. And that is something that I just absolutely adore about you, that you are tenacious and society is changing now in your lifetime at your age. Rather than when it did, when I was your age and it's, it's so important to keep pushing and keep fighting and keep saying and pushing it back on them because you're right. You know, from the waist on up, I look completely fine as well. And, and my story was in high school, it was a Friday night in front of the mall, the shopping hall. And I get out and of course all the kids were there waiting to go to the movies. And I get out with my friends and this cop comes, sauntering up like a complete arse and decides to say, you can't park there, you're too young. And I said, it's on my license plate. It's not even a blue card. And I get out and I'm in shorts and you can see my whole prosthetic. The whole crowd just knew me. And they started cracking up laughing because without saying a word, I was able to shut that whole stigma down of don't judge the book by its cover, but really at the end of the day, it's not their business. Where can our listeners find you on social media and follow along through your journey for Tokyo 2020?

Oliver: 29:12

Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. So I'll be, uh, trying to produce as much content as I can of my experience, my journey, uh, that will be mainly cause my, my Instagram, my YouTube, I'm going to try and pick up again after, after my, uh, after Tokyo, cause I've had to put it on hold. I've not really had enough time to film, edit and upload as I would like, because I've had to put a more, lot more time into the training. Uh, but the Instagram I'll be doing a lot more. Uh, so my Instagram and my YouTube in case you want to see that it's got a lot of old videos of a disability and, uh, you know, masculinity and associated with disability and social norms, et cetera, all that good stuff. Um, it's just Oliver Lam-Watson. So just my name, uh, just Oliver, like Oliver, L-A-M, space, Watson. So you'll find me across all social media platforms from there, really.

Shelly: 30:02

Yes. Very good. Well, Oliver, thank you so much for your time. I know you are on crunch time and I really, really appreciate you jumping on and joining us today.

Oliver: 30:11

Thank you for having me.

Shelly: 30:12

Absolutely, it's been my pleasure. And to our listeners, don't forget to hit that Like and Subscribe button so you never miss an episode of DisAbility Talks.

Outro: 30:42

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of DisAbility Talks. Want to keep the conversation going? Then visit our website at abilitiesinmotion.org, or connect with us on social media. And remember don't dis my ability.