Autism PRIDE Month! Moving from Awareness and Acceptance to Pride

On this episode of Disability Talks, we pass the mic to our Executive Director, Stephanie Quigley, as she talks with Jake & Genine Bashore from Cookie Break with Jake about autism, awareness, pride for neurodiversity, conservatorships and MORE!

Connect with Cookie Break with Jake:
Facebook
Instagram

Want to be a guest on our show?  Connect with us at:
Website
Facebook
LinkedIn
X
Instagram

Transcript

Intro 0:02

Welcome to Disability Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Ed Granger. Join us to encounter unique perspectives on accessibility and independence, and to hear stories from everyday people living their most independent everyday lives, where essential conversations find their place. Let's talk.

Stephanie 0:24

Welcome to Disability Talks. I am your special host for today's episode. My name is Stephanie Quigley. I am the Executive Director of Abilities in Motion, and this is a special episode with some very special guests this morning. I have Genine Bashore advocate, mom friend, previous employee of Abilities in Motion. And with her, we have her son Jacob Beshore. Welcome.

Jacob 0:47

Hello.

Stephanie 0:47

Hello. We're doing special kind of past the mic edition. You're a regular host, Ed is, has been gracious enough to let me handle today's podcast. I'm really excited to have you both with us, um, as we talk about autism. So I'll just get things started by, by talking about April is as we know in our community, Autism Awareness Month and Jake is autistic.

Genine 1:15

Yes.

Jacob 1:15

Yes.

Stephanie 1:16

So let's just dive right into Autism Awareness Month and our general thoughts of about, what does that bring to the autistic community? If anything.

Genine 1:26

I actually had to look it up and I was surprised to find out that it was actually started in 1972, but it wasn't until November 1st, 2007, that the UN declared April 2nd, um, World Autism Day. So it's, it's been recognized. Um, there's kind of been a shift over the past few years of it being more kind of turning from Autism Awareness Month to Autism Acceptance Month. We kind of like to describe it as okay, if you're aware that someone is in the room, that's, that's really cool. Um, if you accept that somebody's in the room, it, it makes a much different point. It it's great that you're aware of autism. What are you doing to accept it? We'd love for the greater community to move the needle from acceptance to pride and appreciation. Wouldn't it be great if it was, you know, April was Autism Pride Month.

Stephanie 2:25

I think why I was excited to have you and Jake on the podcast today was we did a podcast a few year, probably in 2019, the three of us. And we recorded that podcast, I think right around Autism Awareness Month.

Genine 2:39

Yes.

Stephanie 2:39

And had this same discussion about, you know, what does it really do for the, for the community? And it was one of our most downloaded podcasts to date, because I think it's a, a topic that people want to hear about and learn about. And this is a frank conversation and a real conversation. We're not trying to be telling our audience what we think they wanna hear. This is about autistic people, how this month is supposed to look versus how it really does look.

Genine 3:08

Right as in any other community it's, it's difficult because there's some division because in the early inception, there was a move movement to light it up blue and, and things like that. But that was started by an organization that wasn't necessarily listening to autistic voices. It was a for-profit organization that wasn't really centered around autistic people. That's not where your mind should be going, if it is for and built around those voices, those are the voices that should be amplified. That that's what you're supposed to be doing.

Stephanie 3:44

Well as a center for independent living. That's what, that's what our mission is. We do everything based on feedback and action from, from the disability community. And I think it's important to recognize when there's one side, there's another side, right? It's about the individual at the end of the day.

Genine 4:03

And, and while he's not saying a whole lot, I am never his voice, right. I don't ever speak for him. He speaks for himself. You know, we like to say we're ally, or we are an accomplice, an accomplice, isn't a bad word. When it comes to that, we will help him and the greater community accomplish what they want to accomplish and amplify their voices.

Stephanie 4:26

So when it comes, when we're talking about autism awareness, Autism Acceptance Month, I prefer to call it Autism Acceptance Month. And I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that shift. So I'm really happy to see that sometimes people get so caught up in, especially when it comes to autism, that it's children, it's, it's babies, it's, it's small children. And I think we're gonna get into this later about, you know, what does that look like when, when, when we're talking adult, but for this month, we, as a center for independent living, wanna make sure we're giving out information that actually makes a difference. Right? And, and so we would ask when it comes to inclusion, that's a, you know, that's a hot word these days, inclusion, and that's something that's that our organization has been built around. So it's not new to any center for independent living, but glad to see that it's becoming more mainstream and people are, are recognizing that there should be more inclusive practices across the board, but rather than having a person with autism and autistic person try to fit into that mold of our neurotypical society, what, why can't, you know, and I think I've heard you speak on this before. Why can't it be the reverse? Let's try to put some action into place where the, where we're fostering inclusion, but not by forcing something that doesn't fit.

Genine 5:45

Exactly. And, and part of that has been what we've learned by some of our, what we now see as maybe shortcomings failures and because is it okay if I share how old you are?

Jacob 5:59

Yes.

Genine 5:59

Yeah. Okay. Jake will be 25. So he's obviously aged out of the school system, but looking back now, I see so many things that we got wrong and that the school system got wrong. And then if I could rewrite things, I would, there were so many times that we were trying to fit him, you know, he's a square peg and we're, we're, we're pounding a square peg into a round hole. And instead of listing all of his amazing, incredible strengths, we're trying to fit him into a pattern of, okay, this is how a neurotypical child learns, this is how he learns let's play on those strengths. And let's build on that. And why can't some of the neurotypical kids that he's around be involved in that because in the end, everybody benefits because they're going to go out into the community, into society. And they're going to be surrounded by a lot of very different people. Neurodiversity, isn't just autism, it's ADHD, it's dyslexia. It covers a vast variety of brain function. Not everybody's brain is the same. It would benefit every child to learn different. Not everybody learns the same it would just benefit everybody by being included. And I understand that it's difficult on that level to teach every child individually.

Stephanie 7:27

It's a shift. It's a different way of looking at an IEP, for example, or, or inclusion in a classroom. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, we have seen through the work that we do, um, inclusion doesn't mean the same thing to everybody.

Genine 7:43

All of the things that I'm sharing today are our individual experiences. This is not a, you know, a guidebook for anybody else. Jake is an individual. We are individuals. This is not the holy grail.

Stephanie 7:55

But I think that's why our previous podcast was so well received because it's an honest, uh, discussion about real life. Yeah. And a family that experiences it every day.

Genine 8:08

Yeah. Yeah. We have pivoted, um, we've been well and there's, you know, there's a saying, when you know, better, you do better. We have, we have shifted a million times, okay? We've learned that we should not have been, been doing that.

Stephanie 8:22

And I think, you know, I know you've talked a lot or you've talked to me previously about what it's like to experience the world in, in COVID times with social isolation and things like that. And, you know, welcome to a the world of an autistic person.

8:39

Yeah. The whole world went bananas because they were socially isolated and they couldn't see their friends and they couldn't do this and they couldn't do that. And not just autistic people. That's what it's like being a person with a disability, a disabled person.

Stephanie 8:54

Mm-hmm.

8:54

Like, it's very socially isolating. And there were people who were just, you know, and still reeling from those months or that year that they spent being isolated. That's reality for a lot of people. And I don't mean to downplay that it, that it really sent some people into some shock waves, but, but please understand and be empathetic. That, that is the day to day life of, of some people.

Stephanie 9:22

Right. Let's talk about identity language. Again, a center for independent living is it listens to the community of the disabled.

Genine 9:31

Yes.

Stephanie 9:32

And we get questioned a lot for the language of that we use. I just use the word disabled. That might offend some, some people I've used the word autistic just in this podcast. I've used person with autism. It is an individual choice. I believe. And you know, while you can't get it right every time, if you're generally speaking about a population, what you can do is listen to an individual and use those per references.

Genine 9:56

Right. What I've learned. And I am not part of the community. I am an accomplice. I am an ally. So what I try to do is be very, very careful. I always defer to the individual. I defer to Jake, whatever he wants us to do, that's what we're going to do. I will defer to, to the individual. And then I will defer to the community. What I've learned is disabled is not a dirty word. It's an empowering word. And the disabled community is taking that word back. It it's, it's not something to be ashamed of. It's empowering. Um, Jake, what do you, when you refer to yourself you say that you are

Jacob 10:38

Empowering.

Genine 10:39

You are empowered because you are

Jacob 10:41

Autistic.

Genine 10:41

You are autistic. Jake uses identity first language. So when we that's, what we use. Years ago, I would have never used that because most professionals in social services, even in the medical community, you were very strictly taught to use person first. You are a person with a disability, and that was hammered into our heads over and over and over again. And you were even told to correct people. But the problem with that was nobody asked the autistic community what they wanted and, overwhelmingly, autistic adults want to be referred to as autistic. It is part of who they are. Jake. When, when you say you're autistic, why do you say that?

Jacob 11:31

You are special?

Genine 11:34

Yeah. You're special because you're empowered.

Jacob 11:36

Yes.

Genine 11:37

It's empowering.

Jacob 11:38

It's empowering.

Genine 11:39

So that's, that's how he feels. And I'm never going to take that away from him.

Stephanie 11:43

That is amazing. I think the world can get so caught up in language and wanting to try to say the right thing. And I will, I, I know that we here had gotten caught up in that.

Genine 11:55

Oh, I did. I did 100%

Stephanie 11:57

Even working at a center for independent living. You know, what's the right language. I tear down those barriers now because it is individual, but certainly there is offensive language.

Genine 12:07

Yes, no, I will always defer to the individual because I'm, I'm positive that there are probably autistic people out there who prefer to use person first language, then absolutely. I will absolutely honor your wishes. 100%. That is your, um, the only thing I will not stand for is somebody correcting his language or correcting my language outside of, of our circle, correcting us that, that I, I won't, I won't let you do. We also have kind of tuned into the adult autistic community and they are very much now trying to shy away from functioning labels, high functioning, autism, low functioning autism, because what that really does is it, first of all, it can deny services. If you label somebody as a high functioning autistic person, you can, you know, sometimes that will just deny them services. Um, also if you label somebody as low functioning, autistic, sometimes you assume something about their intelligence. Um, so they're really trying to get away from those labels. It also doesn't help the individual whom you're speaking about. Um, if you really cared about them, you would ask what their needs are. Is there any spec, anything specific that I can do to help them plus in Jake's case, is it okay if I share something?

Jacob 13:33

Yes.

Genine 13:33

Um, his function is fluid. So is mine. Nobody's asking me how I'm functioning. You know, what's your functioning label as a mom today? Sometimes I'm a pretty low functioning mother. Nobody's asking me, no one asks me. No one asks me when I wake up in the morning what my, you know, what I'm functioning at. It's kind of, it's kind of rude. Um, we're kind of trying to get away from that. You know, very few other diagnoses are like, it's, it's just kind of, and I've noticed that, you know, in conversation with people, when I, if I choose to reveal that, you know, I have a son who's autistic, sometimes that's one of first questions they will ask me, oh, is he low or high functioning? First of all, my first question is, why are you asking me that? And what...

Stephanie 14:21

That's disappointing.

Genine 14:23

It's it is slightly disappointing.

Stephanie 14:25

What does it matter?

Genine 14:25

It doesn't matter.

Stephanie 14:27

I'm sorry. I'm still getting, I can't get over the fact that someone might correct an autistic person's language or identity language.

Genine 14:33

Yeah. I've not, I've not witnessed that in person. I have witnessed that on social media.

Stephanie 14:39

Unbelievable. Jake, I wanted to just talk to you a little bit about special interests. And would you like to share a special interest that you have with us?

Jacob 14:50

Yes. And my special interest is Spider-Man.

Genine 14:53

Yeah.

Stephanie 14:54

Okay.

Genine 14:54

We nailed it down to, to, we nailed it down to one specific topic. So go ahead.

Jacob 15:00

Well, I'm going to start about the origin of Spider-Man. Basically. It's like this: Peter Parker is just your average wall flower growing up in Queens. Basically. He's good with his teachers, but not so good with his social life. And, uh, and when he went to a science expo, he came across, an ordinary spider that has been radiated with radiation. And then once he got bitten, he gained some kind of unique spider powers, the ability to crawl walls and the sixth sense called spider sense. And, and he thought he could use it, his powers to be, um, as popular as he wanted to be, but an ongoing, he, he thought he had all everything, but his Uncle Ben and told him"with great power comes great responsibility," but he, but he saw a robber trying to rob and get some money, uh, under the fight promoter. But he let him get away and ongoing, he exited. Yeah and when he came back from his Uncle Ben and to his house, to the house, he accidentally saw the police that, that someone that they said is someone shot his Uncle Ben. And he, vowed to get revenge on what he did to who on the killer who killed him, but ongoing back in an abandoned warehouse, he found the same guy that he let go back when he was trying to rob, and basically it was all Peter Parker's fault. So basically, he learned with great power comes great responsibility. He failed to live up to that legacy from his Uncle Ben. And that's why he became the Amazing Spider-Man.

Stephanie 17:13

Wow. Thank you, Jake.

Jacob 17:15

You're welcome.

Stephanie 17:17

I had no idea.<laugh>. That was wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing.

Jacob 17:21

You're welcome.

Genine 17:23

And Spider-Man's your favorite, right?

Jacob 17:25

Yes.

Genine 17:25

Yeah.

Stephanie 17:26

I never heard that story.

Jacob 17:27

It's a rare known story.

Stephanie 17:31

Yeah. So Peter Parker is Spider-Man?

Jacob 17:35

Yes. He always has been.

Stephanie 17:37

That was awesome. Thank you so much, Jake.

Jacob 17:39

You're welcome.

Stephanie 17:40

So Genine, let's talk a little bit about the experience of you and your family and Jake had when he aged out of school.

Genine 17:48

Oh boy. Well, yeah, it's hard because, you know, we like to refer to it as jumping off the cliff, because what happens is, uh, in the state of Pennsylvania and most other states, he is allowed a, uh, you know, individualized education until he's 21. So then he ages out of school and, you know, depending on your child's abilities, there's not much after that. So you either have to find the resources or build the resources to build a life for them after that. Um, it's just, it's really, really difficult because the community resources don't exist.

Stephanie 18:39

Right. So what I've seen and what we've seen in our own community here locally is there's, there's adequate support through K through 12 through that process.

Genine 18:53

Generally speaking.

Stephanie 18:54

Generally speaking, because it it's almost as if no one really thought,"Hey, what happens when an autistic person becomes an adult?" And it's only been recently that I think that's starting to be talked about and brought to advocates and organizations like ours, like, hey, what happens, time doesn't stop does...

Genine 19:15

Does not stop. They all grow up.

Stephanie 19:16

Right. And it's a different world out there for, for an, an autistic adult.

Genine 19:22

Yes. Yeah. You know, it depends on independence level. You know, it depends on, you know, familial support. It depends on community support, you know, are they able to maintain a job? You know, what barriers, what other co-occurring issues do they have?

Stephanie 19:39

Well, it goes, look, I, I see it this way, when we're gonna talk about first responders in a minute, it goes from, oh, that's an, that's a, that's an autistic child who needs protecting and, and, you know, through, through that sta those stages of childhood, not disagreeing, but adulthood comes and it, now it has dramatically shifted from, this is a child with autism that needs to be protected to what is this person doing? Is that a person a threat? And yes, I wish that was not the case. We've seen it in, in many different, terrible news reports yes. Across our country. And I, I'm not try, I'm not trying to oversimplify it, but it can be as, as simple as that, when you're looking at it's a shift, it's no longer, but it's the, it's the same exact person.

Genine 20:26

Yes. It's the same person. And it also goes back to inclusion if they were included in, in everything, in school, in the community, from the time that they were younger. And instead of that diametric shift happening at some point along the education where then they were not, you know, quite as included in the classrooms and you know, where you did see them grow up where they were along with their peers in certain things, you know, then maybe it wasn't like, oh, okay, here's this adult now, what do we do?

Stephanie 21:00

Well, I think it's important for everyone to understand why it's so, why we are so driven to talk to every first responder that we can. And fortunately our local police department allowed us to come in and talk with every officer on, on their force about disability in general and, and autism, and had great response. And I think I'd like to ask you to share one of the stories that you shared with them that really hit home with them that put it in their minds as, okay, this is how this is what you're talking about.

Genine 21:30

Yeah. That's something that was so, and he absolutely loved that when we got to spend time with the Reading Police Department. That was probably, he was so proud to be able to do that. Right? I mean, can you, you wanna talk a little bit about that?

Jacob 21:45

No.

Genine 21:45

No. Okay. Um, yeah, he was so psyched to be able to do that. Um, and honestly, that's something that has been really, that has been so important to me. And it's, you know, I wanna say it was 2015 when it happened. So, um, and this is the, this is kind of what clicked in my head. So we were, um, in the airport in Philadelphia, getting ready to get on a flight to New Orleans. And Jake is not a, a little guy, um, he's six foot and he's, um, 270 on a bad day. So not a, not a child. Um, and at that point he was, he was not a little boy either, but in my mind, this is, this is my, this is my little baby boy. So I don't see him any other way than that. So, you know, we are in Philadelphia, International Airport, we're throwing our bags up on the, on the, you know, the baggage claim. We're, we're doing what you do in the airport. And all of a sudden, outta the corner of my eye, I see one of the guards on the TSA platform. And he is zeroed in on my son square. And I thought, why are you looking at my kid? Like what what's going on? And it clicked my son as adorable and wonderful, and 100% non-threatening, looks so sketchy and suspicious to an untrained eye right now. And all that officer with a machine gun is doing is what he's trained to do-- is pick out people who are suspicious. Um, is it okay if I share something? Um, kind of private?

Jacob 23:35

Yes.

Genine 23:36

Yeah. So Jake has, what's known as stims, so it's self stimulatory behavior. Um, a lot of times when he's waiting, even if he's waiting in line and, and it's quiet, he will rock back and forth. He will pace. He will ring his hands. It's a lot of repetitive body movements. Um, if he's anxious, those movements get bigger, they're a little more pronounced. Um, sometimes he's scripting. So he's kind of saying things under his breath. So imagine if you are in an airport and you are looking for suspicious activity, and you've got a six foot person who's in baggage claim, ringing his hands back and forth. And so at that point, I realized that my child wasn't a sweet little autistic boy. He looked like a threat and it scared the daylight out of me. And it was at that point, I had this visceral reaction. And I remember saying to my husband, I'm like,"Everybody's gotta know, like, we've gotta teach everybody that this isn't suspicious behavior. It's just because he has autism. It's just because this is the way it is. Like, I just remember feeling this wave of panic. Like I needed to get every security guard, every police officer, every, you know, every cop, every ambulance to like everybody to understand that this isn't suspicious because then you start hearing police reports of awful things happening.

Stephanie 25:07

And that's exactly why it's so important to get an autistic person in front of first responders.

Genine 25:15

I have always said, and I will maintain this. And I hope it helped the officers last year. You don't need a professional seminar with somebody who's going to tell you about neurodiversity and self stimulatory behavior. You don't need me up there yapping, you need 15 minutes alone hanging out with my son.

Stephanie 25:35

Right.

Genine 25:35

That's it.

Stephanie 25:36

Well, I think that's what was so remarkable about the training.

Genine 25:40

Yeah.

Stephanie 25:40

They, they didn't want, they could have hired anybody to come in and, and, and lecture them on autism. Or disability. We could, I, I could have done that. And their police chief was very open and transparent about it needs to come directly from the community because that's important to them. And hearing that as, as a leader of a center for independent living, I was like, we're there. You get what we're trying to do.

Genine 26:04

Yeah. And I, and I want, I want to be, be able to have to be in a room where they can ask questions that they feel like they're uncomfortable asking, look, you can ask me anything. I am not offended by anything, anywhere. Anytime you can ask me, like we even have, you know, a, a little scenario when I get pulled over, because I'm not sure what he's going to do or say to a police officer, if, and when I get pulled over for speeding. I'm not sure what his reaction's going to be. So I now, you know, have a really small blurb that I will say to an officer, if I get pulled over,"Officer, here's my license and registration, the young man sitting next to me is my son. He's autistic. I'm not sure what he's going to say or do. Just so you know, there's a wild card next to me."

Stephanie 26:55

Right. And from the feedback that we got from the officers that we talked with last summer, that's exactly what they would want to know. Yeah. Our local police force does not want bad outcomes. Nobody does. And that's the information I think that was, was just not, they'd never had it.

Genine 27:12

Yeah. I just wanna give you a heads up because chances are, he's gonna be really mad at me because I broke the law and I'm gonna get a ticket and his dad's gonna be so mad that I gotta, that I gotta speeding ticket and I'm gonna get it. Mom got pulled over that and he's gonna dime me out. The minute his dad walks in the door, mom got pulled over by a cop today, dad, she was speeding. Like, that's how it's gonna play out. But like, I don't know if he's going to say anything. So I'm going to give said officer a heads up the moment I'm done doing my business, just in case.

Stephanie 27:43

I know that we're trying to continue that kind of training and that kind of outreach to all of our local first responders, because it really was meaningful for both sides.

Genine 27:54

Yeah. It's super important because you are going, it, it's not you might, you are going to come across someone who is autistic. Somebody who neuro diverse, you are going to come across somebody who needs you to be a little empathetic.

Stephanie 28:09

Yeah. And it was a positive experience. I understand Jake got some patches and, and a hat that's that's really cool.

Genine 28:16

And he got to meet the dog,

Stephanie 28:18

The canine!

Jacob 28:19

He was part of the canine unit.

Genine 28:20

Yeah.

Stephanie 28:21

Yeah. That's great.

Genine 28:22

We wanted to be part of the taser day, but they wouldn't let us,

Jacob 28:26

I didn't want to get tased.

Speaker 3 28:28

I don't wanna get tased either, Jake.

Genine 28:29

I wanted to be the one who was doing the tasering, but they didn't. They said, no.

Stephanie 28:33

Well, at least you asked.

Genine 28:35

I asked, I did.

Stephanie 28:36

So I wanna just touch on one more thing before we wrap up. I don't wanna, I mean, this, this topic in and of itself could be an entire podcast. It it's particularly relevant to the autistic community. And I wanna discuss it because if we're talking about autism awareness and acceptance, why are we still talking about conservatorships and guardianships?

Genine 28:56

Yeah I'm not sure. Um, that is something we have chosen absolutely not to do. We are not his voice. He has his own voice. We partner with him in his care.

Stephanie 29:08

Can you share why? I don't think people understand what that means when you officially have a conservatorship or a guardianship assigned, it's not for the protection of the individual.

Genine 29:20

Not necessarily. And I will also say that it is very different from state to state, but in the state of Pennsylvania, when you gain guardianship over your child, they have no rights. Um, they have no rights to their medical care. They have no rights to their financial care. They have, they, you you've essentially stripped them of all of their rights. We have chosen not to do that. Jake is a thoughtful, intelligent person who is more than capable of making his own decisions. Sometimes he needs help to figure things out. So we work as a team to do that. There are alternatives to that. We will continue to work as a team forever.

Stephanie 30:01

I wanted to just bring it up because I don't think people understand that there are alternatives.

Genine 30:06

Yes.

Stephanie 30:07

And from my perspective, I'm not saying there's not a place for it.

30:11

Yes.

Stephanie 30:11

There absolutely is much like everything, but it absolutely should not be the first course of action for someone with an intellectual disability that is having a crisis or a person with mental health concerns that is having a crisis or going through something, or even a person with a disability who the medical community thinks cannot take care of themselves. So there are alternatives out there. There's home and community based services. There's mental health support. You could assign a power of attorney as opposed to a guardianship which, if you want to go that route, then I believe everybody needs to be fully educated on what exactly that means. And what it means for the individual, because getting them reversed as we have seen play out over the last year is very difficult.

Genine 30:58

It's next to impossible. And it, yeah. It's just something that we have chosen not to do.

Stephanie 31:05

I appreciate your, your discussion on it because people really believe, Genine, that it's the right thing to do. It's, it's, it's really helpful and supportive for the person. And that's not really the case. I don't think that everyone has the full picture.

Genine 31:18

We have been able to, I mean, luckily, um, can, can I share something personal?

Jacob 31:23

Yes.

Genine 31:24

Luckily Jake doesn't have a whole lot of physical medical issues. So there hasn't been anything that we've had to explain to him, but I will say that he did have one medical procedure. He was a minor at that point, but you know, we were still able to navigate through that and still have him, again, he was a minor. So that wasn't necessarily an issue as to, you know, who was making decisions. He was a minor at that point, but still we were able to make decisions as a team. We had a, a thoughtful doctor. We are his parents and he was able to kind of, you know, still have input. I, he was 17 or 18 at the time. So he was in a old, you know, he was older at that point. It's just not something I feel comfortable doing.

Stephanie 32:09

It's so important to understand what you're signing up for.

Genine 32:13

Yeah. I'm just not,

Stephanie 32:14

And I'm not, I'm not bashing it. I'm just saying there's alternatives.

Genine 32:19

Yes.

Stephanie 32:19

And let's make that the first go-to choice rather than

Genine 32:23

It should be your final...

Stephanie 32:25

It's a last resort.

Genine 32:26

It should be your absolute last resort.

Stephanie 32:28

And shouldn't, shouldn't we think of it that way?

Genine 32:30

Yes.

Stephanie 32:30

I mean, it's very hard to, to reverse.

Genine 32:32

Yes.

Stephanie 32:33

And unfortunately once, once someone's in one, the odds are stacked against you. Yes. The individuals often do not even appear at the court hearings. They don't have to, it's it's really rife with, with problems.

Genine 32:45

They're almost considered a non, a non voice at that point. They, they have no voice.

Stephanie 32:50

Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts on that. I think it's important just for people to understand, make your own decisions. Of course. But know what, what you're doing. Understand the ramifications of, of what it is that you're choosing to do. Before we wrap up, Jake, did you wanna have any last, any last thoughts? Any last words on being autistic?

Genine 33:11

What's it feel like to be autistic?

Jacob 33:14

Well, it still feels empowering to some people.

Stephanie 33:17

Yeah. Great. I understand. You're the CEO of a business.

Jacob 33:22

Yes. Uh, it's a Cookie Break with Jake. I, I go to some places to deliver cookies and tell everyone about autism and how to handle it.

Stephanie 33:31

That is amazing.

Jacob 33:33

Thank you.

Stephanie 33:34

What kind of cookies do you make?

Jacob 33:35

Well, we made like a peanut butter blast. It kind of like, like it has Reese's in it.

Stephanie 33:43

Is that your favorite candy?

Jacob 33:44

Yes.

Stephanie 33:45

<laugh> Okay.<laugh> yeah, mine too.

Jacob 33:47

Yeah. And we usually make a basic chocolate chip just in case if anyone has a nut allergy.

Stephanie 33:53

Very thoughtful. And how long have you been doing this?

Jacob 33:57

Well, a very long time, I just can't think very far back though.

Stephanie 34:03

Okay. Well, it sounds like fun.

Jacob 34:05

Thank you.

Stephanie 34:06

It sounds like you get to go to a lot of interesting places.

Jacob 34:09

Yeah. I went to a lavender farm in an aviary. I even went to a friend's farm and take a look at some goats.

Stephanie 34:18

Oh my gosh. A goat farm, a lavender farm, an aviary. That sounds like... wonderful.

Jacob 34:25

Yes.

Stephanie 34:26

Well thank you for sharing Jake.

Jacob 34:28

Thank you

Stephanie 34:28

Genine, any last thoughts before we, before we wrap up?

Genine 34:32

No, I don't think so. I just think, I think for so many years, um, you associated autism with, you know, you would hear the words"tragic" or, you know, it would be the plight of, I think the, this, the shift needs to be that it is empowering. It needs to be the focus on the strength. Um, the, the dynamicness, for lack of a better words of, you know, autistic individuals and the fact that it's not broken, you know, we've, we've always told him it's the focus on the positive and that's where it needs to be. Yes, there's a list of things maybe that he can't do. But I have a really long list of things that I can't do too. So the focus really needs to be on the list of amazing things that he can do and that he's spectacular at. And I think that's the, the neuro diverse brain is unbelievable. And I think that's where the shift needs to be. It needs to be, you know, this appreciation, this positive spin it's, it's not broken, you know, just, there are lots of different kinds of bears and there's lots of different kinds of brains. And, you know, I might have a MacBook and he might have a Windows and it's not bad, it's just different.

Stephanie 35:53

And on that note, I think we're gonna wrap up. Thank you both for joining us on Disability Talks and we'll see you next time.

Genine 36:00

Thank you!

Jacob 36:01

We'll see you next time.

Stephanie 36:02

All right. Take care, everybody.

Outro 36:42

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Disability Talks. Want to be a part of the ongoing conversation? Visit our website at abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on social media.