Disability Employment with Doug Goist- Part 2

In part 2 of my interview with Doug Goist, we talk about the mission of National Industries  for the Blind and how the pandemic has shifted employer's mindset of disabled persons working from home.  As Doug and his team work with candidates and employers, he crushes the common stigmas that are not valid and shows how even eyeglasses are assistive technology.

Tune in and enjoy!

Website:  https://nsite.org/
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-goist-656b3228/?miniProfileUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_miniProfile%3AACoAAAXcyCIBsWHvUSlFnji6HkCmKGFgGH8__rw

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Transcript

Intro: 0:03

Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shelly Houser. Join us for real conversations and no nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities, living their most independent everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding accessibility and independence, where conversations aren't dis and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk.

Shelly: 0:32

Welcome back folks. I'm your host Shelly Houser. And today is part two of my interview with Doug Goist talking about disability employment. Doug, welcome back to the show,

Doug: 0:44

Shelly. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me,

Shelly: 0:49

Doug. You've worked for the National Industries for the Blind in out of Virginia and NSITE for the last 11 years. What's your personal goal and mission with the work that you do?

Doug: 1:01

Thanks Shelly. That my, my, uh, personal mission thankfully syncs up with both NIBS mission and NSITE's mission and, and that is, uh, creating or helping not directly creating, but helping create success stories. Um, I'll give you a quick example. We had one, uh, gentleman near when I first started at NIB. He was in the program that I was helping, uh, run for both the department of defense, military and so forth. So what basically, what, what this program was doing is doing is, uh, club was in contracts for the government. So, you know, crossing the Ts, doting the I's and reconciling numbers and so forth. Anyway, this gentleman was working at a front desk and he was basically doing a kind of like just working reception. There's nothing wrong with that, but his, uh, skill level was way above that he was legally blind, uh, impaired and was connected with a component of Boeing. And I, in fact, just heard from him after all these years, a couple weeks ago, and he is doing tremendously well in Boeing. So getting those success stories and hearing his bosses and his bosses boss saying how wonderful he is as an employee. That is what drives me because honestly the struggles that back in our day, way back, it, it was, um, it was a lot of struggle. It was a lot of getting doors closed in your face and not there, there really were no resources that I was aware of, like for employment. So seeing these, um, talented, very talented individuals a lot, as you mentioned before, we had people with PhDs master's degrees, 20 years, experience movers and shakers and so forth and helping them on a path to get back in the game. So to speak back in the workforce and being productive is, is really the most benefit I get. It's like, if I can, if I can help someone cut the pain<laugh> in the cut corners and, and fast track to getting on, you know, with your career in life and everything else, then that's, that's all the, uh, benefit that I could ever, you know, know want.

Shelly: 3:20

Then you've succeeded in, in your mission.

Doug: 3:22

We have a long way to go, but I<laugh>. I, uh, yeah, every day we, every day we try to find new opportunities. We're we're training, Cisco certified network associates for cybersecurity. It, we're doing HR recruiting, sourcing. We're looking in supply chain training. We're working with Google giving scholarships for it, help desk support and project management. So we're trying everything to, uh, get folks, you know, the skills they need, especially, and the, and the opportunity with our corporate customers,

Shelly: 3:53

Just putting that seed of inquisitiveness in their minds as employers and showing them the possibilities of what can be done. It, you know, I know the ADA's been out 31 years and we're still chipping away at it. But if we look back at where we were 31 years ago, we have come a long way. Like you said, you, you have to look at the positive and say, okay, it's is it perfect right now? No, but is it a heck of a lot better than it was in the 60s and the 70s when centers for independent living was still being developed? Heck yeah, we're getting there. We talked about how people are underemployed with disabilities. And can you tell our listeners why it's so important and what society as a whole can do to create a more inclusive, social model, not just employment, but in society, in, in general to kind of, when they talk about diversity and inclusion, they also think firsthand think to add disabilities into that mix?

Doug: 4:57

Yeah. It's absolutely it needs, it needs be in the framework or at least within the, the sphere of somebody's, um, whether it's their mind or their process or, or what have you. In other words, you know, there's this concept of universal design. It it's very important. Shelly, You, you know, this it's far as, uh, accessible life, you know, social life events, buildings. When cities, uh, what have you, they're doing curb cutouts, you know, don't just do one curb cutout that goes in the middle of the intersection. You know,<laugh> do do two, do two of them that costs a little bit more. And then, you know, you have truncated domes, they're called the little, the bumps that, uh, person that uses a white cane. Like I do can feel that that that's marks the street crossing. So that's, that's just the infrastructure side of it. But even with new buildings and designers and architects, you know, NRB, our headquarters is it's pretty spectacular. We hired a, uh, totally blind architect, professional architect, Chris Downey, out of San Francisco, who, who lost his vision at 40 and went totally blind and re revived his career as a, as an architect, he's done like Duke University eye center. But anyway, he came in and he helped helped us with boost sticks. We have talking elevators, we have, uh, a really nice roof area that we installed a artificial grass surface with a trash can, so people can relieve their dogs in the wintertime or, or whenever. And they don't have to go across the street, find a patch of grass or what have you. But anyway, so, you know, that's, that's unusual, obviously. So socially when you're purchasing things, when you're setting up things, designing things, whether you're running a business, whether you're getting organizing social events, you know, have that in the back of your mind, or, or just keep it in mind that there, there are, I think your number was 43 million in the US. Anyway, I think it's like a billion worldwide people with disability that they're, they're very loyal. Whether if you're business or loyal customers, if, if they're, if it's a society they're gonna be resilient and, and productive because they're the best, um, advocates, Cuz they're gonna talk to their friends and talk to their friends and their family members and those type of, uh, situations. And it, you know, in the, in and out of the workplace, if you make, let's just say technology, uh, whether it's a kiosk or whether it's a, like, I just saw that, um, Freedom Scientifics working with, uh, McDonald's, they're having these, uh, checkout kiosks where it's self order, they're already working to make them accessible. So a lot of times these, these accessibility features tools, designs, they're they help everyone. They help people who are elderly, who, um, maybe have a hard time singing, you know, they don't have a, uh, the latest and assistive tech software built into their, you know, phones or what have you. But if you make it, you know, accessible to people, uh, with vision impairment, wheelchairs, people who are hearing impaired, it, it just helps everyone and it doesn't have to be expensive.

Shelly: 8:05

Very good. Yeah. So the pandemic, we are still sort of at the tail end of it. Uh, it's, it's quieted down, but millions of us able bodied or disabled workers we're working from home and did this shift employers and hiring manager's perspective on hiring with people with disabilities now that they see it can be done, has it shifted their mindset on, on this opportunity for us?

Doug: 8:38

It definitely has shifted for their entire workforce sighted and other and non did non-disabled, disabled because they quickly realized having people work from home. I know we served serviced, uh, one of our customers at NIB, uh, was a military air force and they had to, um, distribute 10,000 laptops. Um, so what, what they discover, not them, but just in general, uh, corporate society has discovered is you find out your gaps really quickly when you have everybody working remotely<laugh>. Yeah. So, yeah, and it's, and, and for people, you know, with blindness it's, it's what systems may work, what, what may not work. And I'm talking in the greater, uh, private sector, you know, that, that if somebody was used to coming and working on a couple processes and now suddenly they're setting up remote meetings and everything, well, you know, you wanna use tools like zoom, which is incredibly, uh, accessible and, o r Microsoft teams, and be able to understand that not all technology is going to have these t ool, these features built into them. So i t's, it's a lot of that kind of vetting and, a nd validating and assessing, I think a challenge is you still want, when you're interviewing somebody, you still want to have that person in front of you. I think all of us k ind o f, u h,,,, w ould, would you agree that i t j ust, you just k ind o f get a different vibe, u m, j ust being around somebody and t hen through zoom?

Shelly: 10:17

<laugh> you, you feel their body language, you feel their energy or, or lack of their energy. And it's just, it's just a different feeling, being human to human. And I was just actually saying to somebody yesterday that we almost have to reconfigure how to be social again with one another. Because of pandemic, we, we were forced to not be social and hang out with the water cooler or go out to lunch with our coworkers for over a year. And now we have to get back to that. Um, but there's definitely some benefits

Doug: 10:50

And that I, I, I agree. It's, it's really important because, um, I made the joke with another, a blind employee that, uh, when the, when the, uh, quarantine started that, uh, oh, well, you know, its like, well, when you lose eyesight, we're kind of used to self quarantine because that's kind<laugh> we kind of have that experience because you know, you lose your car and you can't get, maybe you're living in a city with no transportation. So you kind of do feel quarantined, but um, to your point that the importance is especially with disabilities, it's very easy to get back slide into being, uh, less social let's just say maybe because, well, maybe that restaurant's too challenging to go to, or maybe that, that office, I, I would just rather be in my safe bubble versus putting yourself out there because you, in some cases in ambassador or pioneer, when you're the only disabled person walking or interacting with cited, coworkers, colleagues, friends, and so forth that, uh, you, you wanna maintain that close connection with people. And so it's, it's a trade off. I, I think it could be done both ways. So, you know, having that interaction, I think's important. And sometimes in meetings where you're brainstorming, it's sometimes it's, it's great to sit around the table and brainstorm with people versus hitting your mute button and then<laugh> unmuting and nobody nobody's unmuted. So like you said, around the water cooler, lunchroom, those type of things, the good news is technology because of the quarantine or the pandemic has really advanced a advanced the capability of doing a lot more work from home.

Shelly: 12:26

Yeah. Because we can connect. So it's all great. What are some common stigmas that you would like employers t o k now about persons with disabilities and employment?

Doug: 12:39

Um, I, I think the, the main probable stigma is with, um, maybe a hiring manager that has never interviewed somebody with a disability is what they might see in the, you know, past films or they just have no, uh, understanding, uh, that they kind of jumped to a conclusion before really digging into it. Just not keeping that open mind. And it's, it's not to criticize somebody for doing that because it's totally understandable. But for instance, I was stunned after I lost vision, how many people were yelling at me and talked, yelling very loudly and slowly at me. And I'm, I'm like, I'm standing right here.<laugh>, I'm looking at you. Right, right. Hear you just fine. can hear

Shelly: 13:29

I can hear you fine. And you're yelling.

Doug: 13:30

Yes. And they think, yeah, they think, you know, you're hearing must be, you must have super hearing. It's, it's not it's because your vision is taken away that your brain is searching for a sound information, things like that. But as far as that stigma is that what I addressed earlier is, well, you're, you're blind. How, how are you going to use a computer in this job? And I just don't see how that's gonna, how that's gonna work. And is this gonna be expensive because we don't have a lot of money in, in 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Yeah. It was expensive to get a sound card and, and get new speaking technology and all the, but now it's built into apps, phone apps, speaking technology, magnification it's, it's built into computers. It's built in a lot of devices that it's, you know, for under$3,000, you could have somebody completely set up,

Shelly: 14:26

But things like a standing, uh, workbench, my IT guy has one and he sometimes opts to stand. Um, just my other coworker, just bringing in her, seeing eye dog is her reasonable accommodation that doesn't cost them anything. She has a very small little office and the dog is, is in her space and, you know, doesn't bother people. And, uh, it, it could be a, even just a, a specialized chair for somebody with chronic back issues, uh, that we had a coworker here. So reasonable accommodations. And like you said earlier, eyeglasses, hearing aids. These are all assistive technology that can be low cost. And I, I challenge any employer or hiring manager to, to reach out to Doug and his team and learn more about how to be less afraid of these outdated stigmas that really are just that they're assumptions that are really, I don't know, Doug, do you agree? They're, they're really, for the most part, not even true.

Doug: 15:26

They are, they aren't true. And you know, again, in the case of blindness, if his, if a hiring manager, you know, was wearing glasses, I'm in a position where I'm not fortunately not, um, interviewing for work, but you know, you know, if I were really bold and brash, you would, you would just wanna say, I noticed you wear glasses. Well, you know, can you read without them? And if they say, no, it's like, well now are you unemployable? Because if, if you say you're not, that's exactly what that's exactly what, um, people with vision impairments and other disabilities, it's just, we're doing things differently. The, the resilience aspect of it is huge. And the retention is I, I forgot the numbers, but it's 60, 70% retention versus the job jumpers maybe who don't have disabilities. That company has an accessible onboarding system and interviewing system and, or they need help. They can reach out to insight obviously, but disabled employees are gonna know it. It's a great place to work, and they're gonna tell their friends and, and they're gonna, they're gonna stay with the, all that brain knowledge is gonna be there.

Shelly: 16:32

Finally, where can listeners find more about you and NSITE on social media? Where are you located at?

Doug: 16:40

Well, I would, uh, recommend both, you know, listeners and, and also corporate customer, potential customers, o r even just corporate listeners in general. O ur website is NSITE. org, and that's s pelled N SITE. org. And, u h, job seekers click on NSITE. org and look at, u h, i nsight c onnect j ob org. And you can upload your resume. You can p ut your profile in there and look for jobs a nd corporate customers can also use o nsite connect and post j obs. So we work with them as well. That's the main entry point for us as far as the, u m, web activity, u h, social media, I would, I would say I'm available on LinkedIn, Douglas last n ame GOIST you c an see some of my information and I'm happy to talk with anyone who, again, either needs some guidance on how to, how to work with people with disabilities or somebody who's struggling, or somebody who's a, that h as some questions on, Hey, I, I don't know where to start. Can you, you know, g ive m e a advice.I'm happy to do that. Those would be the main, main ones I would say. I'm not too active on other social ones.

Shelly: 17:47

<laugh> That's okay. But yeah, in your spare time, I wanted to bring up quickly, you are part of the Team USA ice hockey team as well, right?

Doug: 17:57

Yes. Um, and, uh, I appreciate you mentioned that because, uh, I'm really proud of my teammates. They come from all over the country and they're all, all ages. I mean, I, from teenage on up and, um, you know, we, we played Team Canada for the first time in 2019, and those games can be found in other games on YouTube. If you look up USA or Team USA versus Team Canada just don't look at the score. Uh, we've been, we've been, um, a team now for three or years. We unfortunately the pandemic canceled. We're supposed to play Team Canada two weeks ago in St. Louis and it was canceled. But, um, yeah, this it's so blind hockey is a thing. And, um, it uses a steel puck that has eight metal ball bearings in it, it rattles, and it makes a lot of noise. It's about, size of a p ot pie. The, the nets are the same width as a n NHL net. I t's just a foot shorter. So, and I'm the goalie. So I, I try to keep that steel puck, that's moving at 40, 50 miles an hour from< laugh> getting into the net. And, u h, it's, it's really amazing. U m, a nd people with different vision impairments and t hat I could go into a whole other explanation about how that breaks down, like the, the helmets a re different colors based on your level of vision. So, and there's a point system

Shelly: 19:23

I'm gonna have to have you back when your team goes to the next, uh, Olympics in the winter, and we'll, we'll have you and your team mates on another day to explain the breakdown of all of that. How's that sound?

Doug: 19:34

It's good. We're, we're working on the 2026 Paralympics, but Finland, Russia, Sweden, and the UK now have blind hockey teams. And we're looking to get more. So, uh, hopefully in 2026, but, but when we face Canada, I'll definitely let you know.

Shelly: 19:51

Thank You. So, Doug, thank you so much for your time and attention and all this wonderful information and crushing those stigmas, cuz they're so important. Those thank you for your time and being here on the show today,

Doug: 20:01

Shelly, I really appreciate it on, on behalf of my teammates at NSITE and National Industries for the Blind. We really, we really appreciate, uh, you getting the word out there and um, we're always, we're always here to help.

Shelly: 20:12

Perfect. Thank you so much. And to my listeners worldwide, thank you so much for listening today and make sure you hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an opportunity to listen to DisAbility Talks.

Outro w/ Music: 20:47

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of disability talks, wanna keep the conversation going then visit our website at abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on social media. And remember don't dis my ability.