Disability Talks: Don't Dis My Ability

Equality and Authentic Representation in Hollywood with Jay Ruderman

March 12, 2021 Abilities in Motion Season 2 Episode 5
Disability Talks: Don't Dis My Ability
Equality and Authentic Representation in Hollywood with Jay Ruderman
Show Notes Transcript

Jay Ruderman, of the Ruderman Family Foundation, shares how he partners with studios like CBS and NBC Universal to ensure equality and authentic representation in film, television, and commercials for actors with disabilities. Big names like Octavia Spencer, Bryan Cranson, and The Farrelly Brothers have also supported inclusion riders to better showcase new, diverse talents. Tune into this episode to learn more about the societal changes Jay's foundation is making here, and in Israel, to further the rights of people with disabilities.

Website: https://rudermanfoundation.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RudermanFamilyFoundation
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rudermanfamilyfoundation/
Twitter:  https://twitter.com/JayRuderman

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Intro:

Welcome to DisAbility Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. Join us for real conversations and no nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities. Living their most independent everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility and independence, where conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk.

Shelly:

Welcome back to DisAbility Talks. I'm your host, Shelly Houser. My guest today is Jay Ruderman from the Ruderman Family Foundation based in Boston, Massachusetts. This philanthropic family believes inclusion of persons with disabilities is vital to a thriving society. It is my pleasure to have today's guest on the show to tell us more. Welcome, Jay.

Jay:

Thanks, Shelly. Pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much.

Shelly:

So your foundation is rooted by your Jewish faith and it works to decrease the stigmas, raise awareness and educate about more accessibility and inclusion for persons with disabilities. Tell us more about what the Ruderman Family Foundation does.

Jay:

First of all, we've been in existence for about two decades, and I think the guiding principle, is something my father, who passed away 10 years ago, really believed in, which was that everyone deserves a fair shot. We got into disability first focused on the Boston Jewish community and education and the lack of accessibility and inclusion for children with disabilities we're based in Boston, but we also have an office in Israel. Our partnership is with the Israeli government and a big non-governmental organization called the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee. And basically our program, which is now in existence almost 10 years, is to move the Israeli government towards a more inclusive model of disability inclusion and move away from segregation, whether i t's segregation i n housing, or whether i t's segregation in employment and, the government, y ou k now, buys i n. One thing that I like about this program is there's a sustainability model that our programs, o ur investment will be adopted as governmental policy. We actually through our programmatics, wi thin I srael, through Israel un limited a nd th e, and the government ha ve p romoted centers for independent living throughout Israeli society, including in Arab communities an d, ultra Orthodox communities. And, you know, it's, it's been, it's very important for the community.

Shelly:

And so do they have protections like the ADA, like we do here in the States?

Jay:

They do. I mean, Israel, has signed on to the convention for the rights of people with disabilities, which the United States is not. Israel is a country where I have found that the laws are very good in terms of, protecting and enhancing the rights of people with disabilities problem with Israel is enforcement. The laws are good, but the enforcement is not so great. And part of that is cultural. Part of that is, is like, you know, okay, there's a law here. You make me enforce it. So every country is different. Y eah. So t hey're, t hey're a little bit behind us yet in that mindset. I remember visiting Finland. I was asked to come there as a guest and I met people in the centers for independent living. And t hey're like, listen, in Scandinavia, we get whatever we want. We need to have any sort of device that helps with accessibility. You know, the government is going to give it to us, but in terms of employment, d oes i t move forward? Every society has something that doesn't quite work.

Shelly:

Right. Interesting.

Jay:

But you know, we're an organization that's evolved over the years. I myself took over running the foundation in 2008. I come u p from a background as a lawyer, as a social activist, as someone who's involved in politics. So I certainly took that aspect of my background into the foundation. And we have gone, I think, outside of Boston and approached organizations first in the Jewish community that we felt were very prominent and very influential, but had not yet fully adopted inclusive models. And so we worked with every organization, whether it be a religious organization, a conservative Judaism, Orthodox Judaism reform Judaism, or whether it be major, organizations like the foundation for Jewish camping or Hi llel, which is a student group and brought different variations of inclusion to these organizations. Whereas now many, many years later, I think that inclusion of people with di sabilities h as become an integral value of the Jewish community. And then I would say that we've moved beyond that in ways that we didn't really expect because we do have an advocacy component. And that has been speaking out against injustice, whether it's derogatory comments or disparaging people with disabilities, and it could be celebrities, politicians, businesses, and we've got a tremendous amount of press. And ultimately that led us into Hollywood where initially we would be very critical of films where able-bodied actors we re, were cast in en rolls d isability. And we were promoting authentic representation. We were very critical of the industry and got a lot of press being critical of the, of the industry, but then moved into partnerships with variety magazine and the Sundance film festival and the Academy awards and discussions with, s tudios such as CBS and NBC Universal and having them adopt, g u idelines and pledging to include actors with disabilities in the audition process and realizing that dis ability is p ar t of diversity.

Shelly:

You crushed a roadblock with NBC Universal recently, didn't you?

Jay:

We, the, the first studio that we met with that automatically said, this sounds right. This is something that should be done. Yes, of course. We're going to agree to a pledge to audition actors with disabilities, with CBS. And I have to really credit Tiffany Smith Anoa'i, who is the Vice- President of Inclusion and Diversity at CBS. And I think she was empowered by the leadership of CBS to just say yes, that this makes sense. And they were the first ones out there. And I think they got a lot of credit for doing it with NBC. It was many, many years of speaking with them. I think a lot of the studios feel that they're doing a good job and, you know. We give out something called the seal of approval that we've given out to dozens of TV shows and movies that have authentically cast actors with disabilities. And so the studio like, like NBC would say, we're already doing a great job. And I said, yes, but there's a role. A leadership is a role of you coming out and saying, we're committing to this and it's going to impact society. So that, that happened last week or the week before. And they agreed to adopt our guidelines and that again, made a lot of, news in the media.

Shelly:

Good. I'm really glad to see that, but I think that kind of inclusive mindset needs to start from the top down.

Jay:

Well, I think you're right, first of all, you know, I want to be very clear. We are a family foundation. Now we have a lot of autonomy because we have a very small bureaucracy. I'm empowered to react very quickly to have conversations, you know, with studios, which are, which I've had, but there have been many others. And we've tried to have a big tent in terms of including people who have been activists in this field for a long time. You know, I think if someone like actors like Danny Woodburn or Marlee Matlin, or, um, Kurt Yeager or RJ, Mittie, Eileen Grubba, there's so many people that we've aligned ourselves with over the years and including, you know, showrunners and directors who really felt impassioned about this. Like Scott Silveri, who was the, director and producer of Speechless, which one of the main characters, Micah Fowler, you know, it was a person with a disability, Glenn Mazarra, who's always been, been a proponent of authentic representation of people with disabilities. And there are many others, and we've gotten through the years to meet the allies in the industry. But I think our strength has come because we are an outside organization. I don't have any businesses in Hollywood or the entertainment industry. I really have very little to lose by speaking out. And I think one of the things that happened to us fairly recently, you know, we give out an award every year in my dad's memory called the Morton, E. Ruderman Award for Inclusion. And it's gone from people like Senator Tom Harkin, who's one of the authors of the Americans with Disabilities Act, to Marlee Matlin, who is the only living person with a visible disability. Who's won an Academy award to Michael Phelps, the Olympian who talks a lot about mental health to Taraji P. Hanson. Who's, who's an actress who's talked about mental health. So, you know, we've always tried to connect to the community and to connect with people who are powerful in the community. But I think our role as an outsider has allowed us to speak out without fear of being blackballed in the industry.

Shelly:

So Taraji P Henson, the actress from Empire, she won that Morton E. Ruderman Award in 2020.

Jay:

Right.

Shelly:

And her and Michael Phelps, they really have spoken out. I know Michael Phillips has done a television commercial regarding his ADHD. Do you find that with these actors and icons that are coming out and talking about whatever kind of disability they have, do you find that it helps open that door to broader conversations? I know Taraji talks about how mental health is really not discussed in the black community,

Jay:

Right I, I think celebrity plays a huge role in our society. And I think when you can align yourself with a celebrity, you can amplify your message, which is what we've tried to do. And I think by doing that, you get you, you know, because celebrity is so followed, especially by many young people are in our culture. And they're looked up to as role models when a role model comes out and it's not just actors, it could be sports figures, you know, the Kevin Love and the NBA, and there's been many others who've come out and talked about issues of depression and anxiety. And it is so important because it helps to remove the stigma. You know, one of the most powerful, we've done many, many white papers on various topics regarding disability in society. But one of the ones that I think, you know, really grabbed the attention of the world was it found that that more police and firefighters will die by suicide t han line of duty. You know, we expect a firefighter or a police officer to have their life potentially at risk through what's required of their job, but we don't expect them to have so much stigma that they're afraid to talk about depression. They're afraid to get the help that they need. And I think that that was shocking. Now it reverberates all the time because unfortunately someplace in the United States, almost on a weekly basis, there's a police officer dies by suicide. And so it's a very important issue. Another issue that we tackled was the policy of leave of absence for students at universities who come out and say, listen, I have finished t o a mental health, and I'm going to take a leave of absence. And basically the policies of the Ivy league schools have been to cut them off and say, okay, you're taking a leave of absence, but you have no contact with the university. Which even further ostracizes them from their community instead of accepting them and saying, okay, you're dealing with an issue. Like if you had a medical issue and you know, you broke a leg and you needed to take some time off or whatever. And I think that that has reverberated around the educational community saying we have to re assess our policies in order to accept people because mental illness or anxiety, depression, anything you want to talk is prevalent through our, our community, especially during the time of COVID, we're all coping with situations that we didn't have to cope with before in our lives. So it's better to be open about it. And in order for us to amplify, you know, we've always tried to connect with people who have a standing in society. T he people are paying attention to,

Shelly:

I know Shia LeBoeuf and Mark Ruffelo Octavia Spencer, and even Brian Cranston have kind of stepped up along with these Hollywood studios and are calling out these studios should be more inclusive with their casting. I really loved when Francis McDermott, during her acceptance speech back in 2018, talked about inclusion rider for the first time. That was something I had never heard about, you know, when she started doing that, was that the shift to kind of have Hollywood take a step back and think about inclusive and authentic representation, or are we still kind of fumbling to get there in 2021?

Jay:

I think we're sort of fumbling, but we're in a much better place. I don't know. I mean, the issue of inclusion rider that Francis McDermott talked about at the Academy awards came from a policy from the Annenberg Center at the University of Southern California. I think it's important. I think people like Francis McDermott who are going to be the star of any movie that they're in, have the power to say to, to the studios, okay, you want me, this is something that I am going to demand. And by the way, we've seen the rise of communities that historically have been very disadvantaged, the entertainment industry, the African-American community, the Asian community, Hispanic community LBGTQ community that have been empowered and a very solidified the disability community tends not to be as unified. And it might make sense in a way, even though disability is 20% of our population defined broadly from anything from a mental health issue to, you know, someone who is, who's an amputee, many of the barriers that people disabilities face are the same barriers, the stigma, the unacceptance, the inaccessibility, but it's not a completely unified community. I mean, the deaf community is, is a very specific community, the blind community and so forth. I think if it was a unified community, it would be by far the most powerful political activist force out there, but there has been progress and you don't really see progress overnight, but by having two major studios say that we recognize that disability is part of diversity. We are going to open our additions. We're going to understand that this is part of the process and we have to do a better job. That's a big step forward. And by the way, I think other studios will join us in the near future, but it's not perfect. However, I read something recently, the Gail Williamson, who is an agent for many actors with disabilities, she said a few years ago, my clients combined were making a total of$50,000. And after they're making$3 million, so there are more roles. And, you know, we have to overcome this stigma, you know, in the last 30 years, half of the men that have won the Oscar for the best actor have won for playing a disability. Now, if you would just think about that, what is happening in the industry is the idea that playing disability is good acting. However, if you want to flip it around to any other minority group and say, okay, here's a character that's written for an African-American actor, but we're actually going to choose a Caucasian actor and make them look African-American. That would be seen as completely unacceptable in our society. Same thing with Asian, same thing with Hispanic, same thing with native American, we've already progressed to a point where these communities it's accepted. It's accepted from the leadership from the top down. They need to be authentically portrayed and their power within the community has risen within the entertainment world. The disability community is not there yet, but I think it's getting there. I remember a few years back, there was an article by a young journalist,who's great. And he did an article about the hundred people who can change diversity in Hollywood. There was not one person with a disability on that list. And we went back to him and said, listen, you left off disability. And he wrote something. He's like, he wrote a column saying I left off people with disabilities from diversity. So I think it's an education. You know, I've spent a lot of time over the years talking to journalists and a lot of them get it. A lot of them get it because they understand it intellectually, or they have a personal connection. They have a sibling, they have someone in their family that has a disability. And they're like, you're right, you're right. This is left out. And this is something that we need to change and it is changing. And I think it will have a profound change. I don't believe that every single character of a disability needs to be played by someone with a disability. We're not quite there yet. And by the way, a person with disability can play any role. You know, they could be in the background, they could be, you know, a supporting character doesn't necessarily have the disability at written in, but why not have someone with a disability? And so you're seeing like last night I was watching the Superbowl and you see like a Target commercial and the person waiting in line at Target is in a wheelchair that's progress. It might not be jumping off the page, but I, because I'm so attuned to it, I'm like there is progress is progress in the fashion industry. There's progress in all these industries. I think there is progress in television. The streaming services have definitely helped. They've definitely brought more programming and they include a lot of diverse programming. And I think that's influencing the other studios. So I think we're talking about an industry in change. Why have we focused on it so much? Because I think people are impacted by people that come into their home, whether it's through a movie or through a TV show, you know, Michelle Obama said most of us get to know people who are not like us by seeing these people on TV and the Octavia Spencer, who you mentioned did a PSA for us. And she said, you know, the first time I saw someone like myself portrayed on TV was the Jeffersons, which was a show in the seventies about an African-American family. And she had never seen an African-American family portrayed on TV. So I think it's empowering. I think it shows the need for diversity. I think we live in a diverse culture and it really has an impact. I mean, I think the stigma that people with disabilities face is a real stigma. I mean, I think that we know the unemployment rate for people with disabilities is 70%, whereas in a good economy, it's less than 4% for the general population. And, you know, I know the architects of someone like Senator Tom Harkin, representative, Tony Coelho, you know, will, they'll tell you we've had many successes because of the ADA, but employment was not one of them. We were not able to budge employment. And a lot of that has to do with stigma. So I'm hoping that as legislation can't really correct the way people feel entertainment can.

Shelly:

And that'll put disability entertainers into the homes of employers and it maybe seeing them in their homes, maybe they'll start to see things differently. You know, that we have abilities more than disabilities, right. Jessica Long was another one. She's a Paralympian that just had a commercial yesterday with the S uperbowl as well. And it was really beautifully done. I know some have argued on Twitter that it hits upon ableism, b ut I don't think it does for me. It does not.

Jay:

Yeah. Right. Well, I also saw Jessica, who I interviewed for my podcast All-Inclusive and who is an amazing person and a great athlete. And I saw the back and forth on Twitter, like, is this inspiration porn? Or, you know, is this progress for disability? I would look at it like Jessica is a great athlete. She's a Paralympian, you know, she's a medalist, you know, why shouldn't she get the recognition that other athletes would get? And this was an opportunity for her to, to take advantage and to get that recognition. So I didn't see it as a bad thing. I think when you're, when you're talking to a Superbowl audience, which is one of the largest televised events and the largest audience to see someone who is a Paralympian, getting a:30 spot at the Super Bowl, I think is extremely powerful. And we formed an organization a while back called Link 20. So I'll tell you how Link 20 came about. Link 20 is a group of activists. They're all over the United States. They're in Israel. Hopefully it will be in other countries, but there are people with them without disabilities. And I started it because I said, listen, we are a foundation. A foundation is an organization that the government allows you to take private wealth and set it aside for the good of the public. As long as you distribute 5% of the Corpus of the organization every year. But for us to advocate, we've done a tremendous amount of advocacy for disability rights. But I felt that the disability community has step up and do a better job. And by the way, they have had some amazing successes. So they reached out to the us Olympic committee and said, you're not paying Paralympians on the same level as Olympians. There's no parody there. And after fighting them and after, you know, having conversations, the U S Olympic committee agreed on metal parody. So you win a gold as Paralympian. You get paid the same as an Olympian. And that was a huge win. I think, for the disability community, they went out to major league baseball and they said, listen, you know, for a hundred plus years, if a player gets injured, he's put on the disabled list. And they say, well, these players are not permanently disabled because you have a hamstring injury. You know, you may be out for a week or two, but you're coming back. So that's not, it's not fair to call it the disabled list. You should call it the injured list. And Billy Bean, who is the Vice President of Diversity for major league baseball immediately said, yes, that makes sense. And they changed it after a hundred years, they changed it. So these are some of the successes, and I've seen, you know, Link 20 when they reach out to the airline industry and talk about accessibility and talk about the ability to travel and they're taken seriously. So I think that, that, you know, has been a great success and I think they'll continue to have success. It's something that my idea was that we were going to foster it. We were going to fund it and eventually it would become its own entity. It would have its own leadership and it would be out on its own.

Shelly:

That's the Accessibility Air campaign that you're talking about. Right?

Jay:

Yeah. But I think, you know, what, the transition for Link 20, the next step in the United States is that they're now going to be under the auspices of NCILl. And I think it's a good move. And I think eventually, you know, they'll find their own way very early on. When I got involved in this issue, I learned a phrase, nothing about us without us. And so I've always internalized that phrase, anything that we've ever done in the entertainment world, in the sports world, we've always had the inclusion of people with disabilities. If I, if I'm going to do an event in Hollywood, I'm not going to do it without someone with a disability being up there on stage with me. You know, I understand the role of a foundation. The foundation can sponsor programs. They have the funds to do it. They have the ability. At least we have the ability to access the media, but it really has to be above the disability community and they have to carry the flag forward.

Shelly:

You got Zack Gottsagan what a year ago to be on the red carpet and present with Shia LeBeouf? And I think that was the first time Hollywood had had an actor with a disability up there on stage. And you and your wife had the honor of being able to walk on the red carpet with Zack and Shia. How did that feel In that moment?

Jay:

We had been talking. So we decided to part when with some of the major organizations in the entertainment industry and we partnered with the Academy Awards. So we were talking with them for a long time about the inclusion of, of disability, the movie, Peanut Butter, Falcon, which in case any of your listeners has not seen it is a great movie. It's a real Huckleberry Finn story. And Shia LeBeouf I think is great. And Dakota Johnson and Zack Gottsagan. And, you know, it's not so cut and dry as to how it came out. But I think after talking to the Academy Awards for months and saying, listen, you really have to have a disability angle. Uh, you know, in the Academy awards, it was very gratifying to see, you know, Shia and, and Zack out there on the stage. And of course, you know, anything that's done, we'll have a certain amount of controversy. There was something, you know, in the media about people said that Shia was patronizing. I think that they have a true friendship, you know, from what I know from the people that produced the movie, that they spent a lot of time together and they have a real relationship, but I think these things are important. I think, um, visibility is important. I think people seeing people that are not like them and saying, okay, this is a growing trend is important,

Shelly:

But that's the way our world is. Anyway. It's not just all the pretty perfect people. If you look at Hollywood, you know, it should reflect America and what we look like, we're not all one color. We're not all one religion. We're not all one shape and size. Right?

Jay:

I think they're getting there. Yeah. And I think their intentions, at least from the people I know in the industry, their intentions are well, first and foremost, you have to remember that the entertainment industry is a money making business and that is their bottom line. However, they do understand their impact on society and they want to do the right thing. But this transition that we're going through now where it's like, Oh, this is great acting. You know, having someone like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, or Daniel Day Lewis and My Left Foot and all of these cases where it's like, wow, this is great acting! That's a big thing to overcome. And the other thing that people will always say, well, there's no people with disability who are stars. Not yet. First of all, not yet. Second of all, it takes time. You have to get into the pipeline. I mean, the other night, my wife and I were watching a movie that I really love John Grisham and A Time to Kill and starring Matthew McConaughey, Sandra Bullock. And we're watching it in one of the first scenes. There's a scene in a hospital and I see Octavia Spencer, and she has one line in the movie. And then I found out that's her first movie. That's the first movie that Octavia Spencer wasn't. Now she's one of the most respected. And I think one of the greatest actors out there, but everyone gets their start someplace. And if you get your start and you're good, and you work at your craft and you make the right connections, you will become more recognized in the industry. And you know, we have to get away from the time where like in glee, the character, you know, who played a disability in a wheelchair, was playing a character. There's no reason why you can't have someone who's in a wheelchair who is attractive, who is a good actor, play that role they're out there. And I'll give you the example of speechless. When Scott Silveri wanted to find Micah Fowler, he hired an agent who went all around the country and found him. He was in, I think, Georgia at the time. And they found him and he was great. These people exist. We live in a big world. There's a lot of people that want to get into entertainment. And when you have CBS and NBC and other studios saying, yes, this is a value when you have the Academy Awards coming out and saying for best picture, disability will be one of the factors that we will look at that will change how people cast. It will change the way productions are put together. And by the way, one of the things that I was very lucky to do, we gave in 2019, the Morton E. Ruderman award to the Farrelly brothers, Peter and Bobby, who've always done a great job at including people with disabilities. They had a friend who was paralyzed at a young age. He, you know, he was in many of their movies. They put other people with disabilities in their movies. And I think that, um, you know, Peter is an Academy Award winning director. He knows all of the, the top brass. And, you know, we worked really well together to try to get that message to the top leadership of the studios. So I think it's coming. I think we live in a very interesting time. I'm proud of the work that we've done, but I think there's so much more to be done. And I think the disability community will continue to be a community that will be more and more empowered and more visible in entertainment.

Shelly:

And with that, I think we're going to take a short commercial break and we'll be back.

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Shelly:

And we're back listeners with Jay Ruderman from the Ruderman Family Foundation out of Boston, Massachusetts. So we left off and talking about the Farrelly brothers. And I did listen to that podcast on your all-inclusive podcast, which is really very good. Thank you. I kind of thought it was funny that they had a friend who actually called them out on that, that they didn't have somebody cause he's like, I thought there was going to be somebody with a disability in your film and there wasn't anybody. So, and until they were called out, they didn't think about it. They just made this film. And now I think they have at least one or more persons with a disability in the foreground, in the background on set. Have you been talking about that to the studios as well as having, not only people in front of the screen with a disability, but people behind the screens. I know I talked to Jennifer Laszlo, Mizrahi from RespectAbility and her organization is working to get writers with disabilities to write these characters organically, right from the start, before they even hit the studio.

Jay:

I think it's all important. I mean, I think there's various roles in getting a production to happen. You know, the producers and their attitudes, the directors, the writers, you know, the show runners, the, the casting directors, they all have to be educated and there are champions in each field, but their voices have to be elevated. Going back to what I said before, there are communities that have become very, very powerful because they banded together. The disability community has to do a better job at banding together. And, you know, saying this is important, this isn't, it's not about any one of us. And I think sometimes, you know, in an industry that's sort of shaped by ego and, you know, someone wants described Hollywood to me as high school with money. So you have to sort of put aside some of that ego and say, yeah, we're trying to be involved in a cause to, to improve our society. And too often, I hear from people it's all about me. You want something to happen? It's about me. Have them hire me. I can solve the problem. No one can solve the problem. It's a network of individuals. Every point in the process is important. Our focus has been to get major companies in the entertainment industry to commit to principles that they are committed to publicly and that are in the press. So then they can be held accountable and said, what, tell us what you're doing, what progress you're making. And I think that they're going to want to show progress and that's been our added value, but I think every other aspect is also important.

Shelly:

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the recent passing of David Lander, who we remember as Squiggy, on Laverne and Shirley. Danny Woodburn had posted on Instagram not long ago after, after he passed that he had MS. And that he would act as if he was drunk on set, rather than just come out and say that he had MS. And that, you know, there were challenges. And it was really kind of sad to hear that. And I think Danny for posting that as he got older and onto his career, he came out about it and he was more public about it. So that stigma is still there. B ut did you ever get to meet or work with David Lander before he had passed?

Jay:

You know, I, I didn't, but I remember reading Danny's, post about him. And I think, you know, first of all, I think stigma influences the way we feel inside and we know we're going to be accepted. We're not going to be accepted. I mean, I, I want to go back to the early eighties when Rock Hudson would not talk about that he had AIDS, until he passed away. And even when he passed away, it was like, Oh, why did he pass away? Stigma is always there. What I see happening, there's two things I think, um, you're seeing more and more celebrities who are more out about what their disability is, especially, you know, people who are young singers, you know, Selena Gomez and Lady Gaga and Demi Lovato. And so many more saying, listen, you know, there are issues. And by the way, being in the limelight and being a celebrity a nd m ean, we all know, you k now, through, especially with COVID how difficult life can be, you know, with our kids and ourselves and isolation and you know, how we're perceived and social media and the negative aspects of social media. But I think people hide things about them, which are important about them because they're afraid of stigma. And also, I think you're afraid of being blackballed in the industry saying, okay, well now I'm taking him out of this category where he's this funny actor and I'm g oing t o say, well, he's a funny actor. Dave has MS. And maybe that's not how he wanted to be known, but I do think you're going to see more and more people just coming out and saying, this is who I am, and that's beneficial to society because it's not only about them and educating the industry and saying, there's all types of people out in this industry, but it's also beneficial to younger people and older people and people who have the same condition across the world being empowered by saying, yes, this person is like me and they become successful. And so, I'm all in favor of people being more out about what they're going through. However, I'm no one's judge. And that's an individual decision as to when you want to do that and how you want to do that. By the way, it was the same thing with, you know, actors who are gay lesbian, you know, a lot of times people were hidden. I remember the episode of Ellen where she came out and said, I'm gay. You know, i t was a shocking thing for America at the time. I mean, now you have a character on TV and says, you know, they're gay, it's no big deal. It's like, okay. You know, someone being gay is part of the fabric of our society, but it wasn't always like that. And I think society constantly needs to be challenged. And, you know, fear comes from a potential monetary loss, whether you're an actor, whether you're a studio, how does society feel and how are they g oing t o adapt to it? What I think the entertainment industry has to understand is they are more powerful in shaping attitudes than they would ever know. They have a leadership responsibility, not just to be, y ou k now, looking at how their product is going to be accepted among the general public, but to lead the general public a nd saying, this is now what our society looks like,

Speaker 1:

Shows like Will and Grace and ModernFamily really brought to light the funny side of their life of being in the LGBTQ community Will and Grace really pushed that envelope. And I really hope that in the next decade or less, that studios decide to do that and open that door about wide for persons with disabilities. And I think you're right, those, those icons coming out and saying, I have this disability Selena Gomez on her social media took us on that journey. When she had her kidney transplant with her Lupus. They kind of showed that there's no shame in it. Nobody's perfect. It is what it is, and this is my life and get on with it. But I think these icons coming out, you know, being very open and honest about it is a great way for our youth to kind of say, okay, somebody gets me right. And, and still look at the life that they've created for themselves. You know, like Michael Phelps with his ADHD. I mean, he could have chosen a thousand things to do, but he harnessed all of energy right. And focused on swimming. And he's just an amazing athlete. I wanted to talk to you about your submission papers for the foundation. You have a deadline coming up on March 31st. Can you tell us more about that?

Jay:

We're now approaching the next phase of our foundation. I mean, the foundation has been in existence for about 20 years. It is a family run foundation. You know, I run the foundation. There are other family members that are actively involved. We are social activists. We've devoted our lives, not just to giving away money, but also to seeing how it's implemented and trying to have an impact on society. I think we've done a good job at that, but we're looking for our next challenge. So one of the, one of the ways of doing it is to put out submissions for concept papers and to listen to interesting ideas. There's so many smart people out there. There's so many different ideas and we'd like to hear from them and say, what does society need that you know, is not being done? I mean, we've always approached a couple of philosophies of one going narrow and deep, you know, that we want to go into an area and go very deeply in which we become, not only funders, but also experts in the area. And I think the other thing is that we're looking for a rea of need where there's a vacuum and we can have a real leadership, but there's not a lot of people in the field and it can use a champion. And we're, if you look at those two areas and there's something that really society needs is it's not being done right now. That's what we're looking for.

Shelly:

Great. Where can our listeners find out more about that and all your other social media platforms?

Jay:

Well, first of all, you can go onto our website at www.Rudermanfoundation.org. And that may take you to the website. That's focusing on the submissions of these ideas, but you can certainly get the link from our website. We're active on social media. I do my own social media. Um, you know, I'm most active on Twitter, but you know, a little bit less so on Facebook and Instagram. but the foundation also has their own platforms. And, you know, I do a podcast like you w here, every two weeks interviewing someone that is doing something interesting in social activism and has an interesting story. And I think it's, inspiring. It's ge ared towards people who want to try to make a difference in life and can learn from others. You know, a couple of the guests that we have coming up are, J im Landsmen, who's the only quadriplegic in Congress, uh, and his story about, you kno w, wh at happened to him and how he got to Congress, Richard Bernstein, who's a b lind justice on the Michigan Supreme court. You know, we just released Kyle Maynard, wh o is someone who was born without any limbs, but, you know, it h as become a mixed martial arts arti sts and climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, And just, really interesting people telling interesting stories and how they've changed the world. And I think people who are looking for meaning in life and looking to do something I think can gai n some inspiration and som e, and some ideas about,how people really found their path. And that's what the podcast is about. So people can find us, you know, I've alw ays said that people in philanthropy need to be very transparent. We've tried to be extremely transparent and, yo u know, happy to connect with people.

Shelly:

If you folks, if you listeners out there, haven't checked out his podcast, I have listened to many of them and I highly suggest you check out all inclusive. I t i s a phenomenal podcast to listen to and everything that Jay does. So I think that's going to wrap it up for today's episode of disability talks. I want to thank Jay for being here through the foundation and promoting equality in Hollywood and around the world. Thank you so much, Jay.

Jay:

Thank you, Shelly. It's been an honor.

Shelly:

And to our listeners. Thanks for listening. Make sure to hit that like and subscribe button. So you never miss an episode of DisAbility Talks.

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Thanks for tuning in to this episode of disability. Talks want to keep the conversation going then visit our website at www.abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on social media. And remember don't d is my ability.