WeWALK Introduces Revolutionary Smart Cane Technology

This episode welcomes guest Jean Marc Feghali, of WeWALK, a company of out of London, England. WeWALK develops tech for the visually impaired community by the visually impaired community. Jean Marc himself is visually impaired and a WeWALK user. He shares that products, like the ultrasonic WeWALK Smart Cane, are designed through the lived experiences of the team as well as feedback from the greater WeWALK community, making these products truly unique. But, WeWALK is more than just technology. WeWALK is about independence, confidence, and staying active in the community. Tune in to this episode to learn more about WeWALK and their revolutionary technology!

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Website: https://wewalk.io/en/
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Transcript

Intro: 0:03

Welcome to disability talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shell y Houser. Join us for real conversations and no nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities. Living their most independent everyday lives tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility and independence. Where conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk.

Shelly: 0:31

Welcome back everybody. This is Shelly Houser and I'm your host of DisAbility Talks. Today I am speaking with John Mark Feghali. He is the head of R and D, which is based out of London, England. This new technology for We Walk will be for persons with visual impairments. Welcome Jean Marc, how are you today?

Jean Marc: 0:48

Thank you very much, Shelly, for the introduction. It really is fantastic to be here today and to get the chance to talk about it. We Walk, which uh, the team and I really, really love doing I'm all good today. How are you doing Shelly?

Shelly: 0:58

It's rainy here. I would assume it's similar in London?

Jean Marc: 1:01

It's rainy here as well. So we can both, um, we both know the feeling, I guess.

Shelly: 1:07

Melancholy after the holiday for us. W ould y ou please explain to our listeners today? What exactly t his We Walk design is?

Jean Marc: 1:16

Oh, absolutely. I mean, so just from the very get go, um, you know, our listeners should know that, you know, at We Walk, uh, we designed tech for our visually impaired community by the visually impaired community. It sounds kind of cliche, but we are visually impaired ourselves. I mean, I'm visually impaired and use a lot of my lived experiences and our product design, Kursat, our co-founder is also visually impaired, blind since birth. He's a We Walk user, so am I at night. You know, we have people in our customer department that are visually impaired. We also rely a lot on our visually impaired feedback. Um, as well as our advisors in how we designed our products. I know I've said visually impaired, so many times in that sentence, it's going to be a running theme, but to begin with, you know, we, we use a text, so we understand the problems which we go through on a day to day basis. And you know, we're long cane users. We've been using canes for ages. I mean, it's centuries old technology, right? It's a stick. And the, you know, we just realized, Hey, wait a second. You know, the cane is great, don't get me wrong. We have nothing against a standard cane. It's a symbol of our independence, right? It gives us ground level obstacle detection. It's helping us get out there for years. You know, it's, it's a key part of our O and M tool kits, but we thought to ourselves, Hey, wouldn't it be great if we can take this, you know, standard, you know, simplistic utilitarian design, you know, keep all the good stuff the same, but just add the tech bits to it, you know, to bring it up to the 21st century, to give our visually impaired community better mobility, um, as cities around them as transport us as technology around them grows as well. And that's exactly what we've done with. We Walk, we've just taken a standard cane, um, and we've chopped off the rubber handle and replaced it with the We Walk handle, which is this, you know, sleek device that has all the tech bits inside. The shaft of the cane is literally a standard white cane and sort of put in a replaceable one. I mean, we ship our, We Walk with an Ambi tech, graphite cane, you know, that we've just removed the handle off so you can choose your tips. You can have pencil tips, marshmallow tips, you know, whatever you want. The entire experience is built off your O and M cane technique and cane training. We're not taking any of that away. We're just giving you this extra bit of technology. And the technology itself is quite simple again. So we've simply taken, u m, we've placed an ultrasonic sensor at the front of We Walk and that gives you upper body obstacle detection for things like low-hanging tree branches, u h, signage, p oles, things of the bottom of a cane might typically miss, but when you connect it to our, We Walk smartphone app, it becomes super cool, like it even cooler so that We Walk smart app is completely free t o download. Like anyone can download it. You don't even need a We Walk to use our navigation exploration, all those great features. But once you connect your, we walk to the, We Walk up, you can control that whole experience whilst mobilizing outdoors. You know, you can use your We Walk touch pad to access o ur l ike fully from the ground up navigation with clock directions, you can use our exploration features like find out what businesses around you. You can access public transport all from your cane. So you can keep one hand- free. You can use your voice to talk to. We Walk, you can use a t ouch-pad we walk, we'll talk to you and you get obstacle detection. So it's just a really sort of simple experience with your phone in your pocket and you get to go!

Shelly: 4:30

That's really cool. How long does it take a user to get used to this technology?

Jean Marc: 4:35

That's a good question. I have to say it varies. I mean, it depends what you want to use We Walk for? And how advanced you are with tech as a general user? Uh, so from the very get-go, regardless of how old you are, where you're based, when you bought your, We Walk, you know, what your abilities are, we will be on the phone with you, uh, you know, within the first week of purchase to run you through an induction session. And you can have unlimited one-on-one induction sessions. Like we want to make sure you're one, a hundred percent comfortable with your cane. And the induction session runs you from the very basics through to the more advanced stuff. You know, we show you how to connect your We Walk, uh, how to connect it to your mobile phone app, how to download the app, what the features are and how to access each of them. And generally after that, it just becomes a case of mastering the finer details. Like knowing what obstacles th e o bstacle detection can do at certain distances like th at m icroscopic level of sort of let's make the most out of this going from 90% to a hundred percent. Ri ght. Um, b ut I'd say the most fundamental thing always is, ca n u se. So, you know, like I said, we're not replacing the white cane, we're just a d evice which gives you extra features when you need them. And wh en y o u d on't want to use, We Walk, it's just th e c ane, right? So if you know how to use a cane, you kind of already know how to use, We Walk. It's just a c ase of, okay, how do I then use obstacle detection? How do I figure out the touch about it? But at most th at s h ould o nly ta ke a bout three weeks ish. I'd say to become a true master of the tech that comes itself.

Shelly: 5:58

Okay. Now here's a silly question. I'm a sighted person with a different kind of a disability. Does the cane come in different lengths for different people? Because I'm only like five feet tall, but say somebody is more like six, six and a half. So does the cane come in different lengths that you can customize that as well?

Jean Marc: 6:18

Oh, 100%. Absolutely. And we have different ways, which you could do that. So straight off, just from ordering the cane online, you can specify what length you want. We offer a range of different sizes. So do check that out. Otherwise, you know, if you buy a size and realize, Hey, I want a different cane. We ship, We Walk with an extra adapter in the box. So not only do we ship an adopter pre-attached to the Ambi tech cane, which we provide, we also provide an extra adapter, which you can use to attach to your own cane. And the majority of canes will work, as long as it's not a rigid cane or an air p ressed c ane, if your cane is just held together by the elastic string, u h, you know, so most Ambi t ech c anes, you know, most canes out there, i t's just a simple case of, you know, u ntying your handle from your existing cane, putting in the adapter, retiring the loop, which we provide instructions for. U m, and then you're good to go. Basically, you've caught your We Walk handle attached to your own customizable cane. So loads of different ways to get the right size for you.

Shelly: 7:12

Do the instructions come in braille and print?

Jean Marc: 7:16

Indeed, they do. So we have a quick start guide and braille in the box, but we have actually recently overhauled our entire support page as well as coming soon, by the way, support videos and support audio. Um, you might hear a familiar voice on those audio recordings, but where we talk you through all the features. So if you don't want to sort of spend your time with braille, uh, you know, even on our website right now, you don't even need to have a, We Walk to access this documentation, you know, you can access, um, those instructions, uh, use a screen reader, totally accessible, or even though all your guides, if we've recorded, if you want to sort of step by step, walk along. And of course, this is all on top of the phone. In-person customer support a lot in person, but you know what I mean? Like sort of human to human customer support that we do that comes standard with all We Walk.

Shelly: 8:05

Right. How does it connect to like public transportation, say the bus or the train or the Tube? You know, when somebody is out and about.

Jean Marc: 8:14

That's a very good question. And actually it's one that's quite simple. So we use Microsoft De Jur, um, which actually is the same platform that powers Move It, uh, the sort of blown up quite recently. It's, it's, it's a really great app, um, that also has public transit integration. So we have by tapping into Microsoft services, which already has such a huge network, um, of transit providers stops. It could be buses, rail, even riverboats services here in the UK. Um, you have access to over 1,500 cities from the We Walk app. So it's a simple case of opening up your app, tapping the nearby stops feature, and then you can select from different categories. So buses, trains, whatever. Then you get a list of all the nearby transit stops. You can navigate to them with the, We Walk, you can, uh, track them. So you can always track a transit stop. Uh, and you can actually click on that stop to see what time buses are coming or trains or whatever, and what their final destination is as well. And we're constantly upgrading that. So, you know, we have, for instance, bus timetables coming in soon, train timetables, you can actually see not just when it's coming, which you can do already, but rather what specific stops are on that journey as well as how long it'll take to get there and where you are through those stops as you're traveling on the transit service. So very exciting stuff. We're always growing.

Shelly: 9:34

Is it advanced enough to tell you where staircases are or elevators within the like subway stations?

Jean Marc: 9:44

Hmm. This is an interesting question. So, um, I guess primarily not, but this is how, you know, we're, we're evolving the product. So in terms of detecting stairs, we will always use your standard cane technique. So, you know, when detecting from truncated domes, when locating curb sides, when locating steps, that's just going to be your cane, right? Like we need to tell you about stuff like that. However, there are cases where it can use obstacle detection to detect elevators. So when the doors opening, uh, you know, you can tell when the door has opened, because the obstacle detection will stop vibrating, for instance. So we have loads of novel use case scenario. But this kind of gives me the chance to talk about it really, really exciting project we're working on as We Walk. So with We Walk, we're constantly improving it, you know, because we're such a software driven platform. We can do like huge additions to the existing hardware, which is, you know, always free of charge. It always comes with the cane. You know, we're all about continuously upgrading the experience. We have just started a project with Innovate UK. It's funded by our, you know, the British government. It's an innovation program in partnership with Imperial College, London and their Center for Transport Studies, which is a leading university here in well across the whole world actually. It's, it's one of the best with the Royal National Institute for Blind People, which is our national body for visual impairments. And we're working on an indoor navigation system that is compatible with We Walk. Um, so a system that can tell you for instance, where, you know, help points are where staircases are, where escalators are sort of giving you that actual, you know, real time feedback. And this project has just started, it's an 18 month project. So, you know, we will be done at 18 months. We have to be done in 18 months, but it's a really exciting journey where we're hopefully going to be delivering on that microscopic, um, sort of indoor navigation, which you're kind of touching on here.

Shelly: 11:28

That's really very, very cool. So you're just thinking not only of now, but you're thinking in the future, and it's great that you have such a large Institute and the government, you know, the whole country's government involved with the whole thing, because I think that will just drive diversity and inclusion across England. And hopefully it trickles over other parts of Europe.

Jean Marc: 11:50

Oh 100%. And you know, I want to go back to the point mentioned, which is you're designing for the future. I mean, that really is sort of our vision with We Walk. That personal hub, that sort of device that becomes a de facto cane. But we always say to ourselves, we don't have to, you know, we're not designing a product for tomorrow. We're not designing a product for the problems of today, what we are obviously from the foundations, but we're kind of designing it for the needs of our changing community, which could be two years time, three years time, because you got to design things in advance. You've got to think to yourself, okay, what issues will we be facing in two years time? And how can we set ourselves up today to effectively work towards solving this issue so we'll be ready in two years time?So we're not sort of chasing the issues of the visually impaired community, but rather proactively fixing them and predicting them.

Shelly: 12:34

You're you're leading the way. And I think you're doing a great job. So with that, I think we are going to take a commercial break and we'll be back on the other side.

AD: 12:44

Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania based nonprofit organization dedicated to helping individuals with disabilities live their lives on their own terms, Abilities in Motion, strides to eliminate psychological stereotypes, physical barriers, and outdated attitudes that prevent social and civic inclusion as well as promote the independent living movement to empower, educate, and advocate for individuals with disabilities. For more information about programs and services, Abilities in Motion provides call(610) 376-0010, or visit our website@ www.abilitiesinmotion.org.

Shelly: 13:21

Welcome back listeners. This is Shelly Houser, and I am speaking to Jean Marc Fegahli from, We Walk out of London. Time called your invention the best intervention in 2019. And you guys were featured on CNN, BBC Mashable, Cool Blind Tech and other agencies. We Walk has been even introduced here in America. Can you tell me more about some public engagement that you've been working on to promote this new technology?

Jean Marc: 13:51

Of course. I mean, that's, that's a really, really great question. I have to say. I probably speak for the rest of the team when I say this. I mean, I always blush and sort of, I'm so humbled by all the recognition we've gotten and, and I know the team really, really appreciates it. It's been really, I mean, a loss for words where it has been incredible, absolutely phenomenal journey for us over the last year. But not just sort of for what We Walk has been recognized for, but you know, what we've kind of been seeing happen after these awards and after these public engagements, which is, you know, a greater eye, if you'd like a pun intended, a eye, the visually impaired community You know, u m, you know, when, when we speak to these organizations, y ou k now, we see CNN doing a piece for instance, on visual impairment. I mean, that's just great in general. I mean, here you have a large mainstream organization, you know, asking these detailed questions, you know, getting this insight into visual i mpairment, i nto the tech that we use into wide c anes. I n eed t o look into this, you know, in the visually impaired community a nd the disabled community in general. Typically people without disabilities might not know the tools that we use. You it's s ort o f like, Oh, okay. A white cane is a tool used by a visually impaired person. That's it. You know, we probably don't know more. And because of this public engagement, you know, we really have seen, you know, organizations that typically don't work in disability, you know, asking us more about d isability, you know, trying to engage with us, you know, that Microsoft partnership, for instance, a nd Microsoft being an absolutely incredible organization, you know, sort of taking us on board, being project partners with us and i n another R and D project that we're working on, y ou k now, sort of shining this light on visual impairment, t hat inclusivity. That's such an amazing, b y-product just from these engagements. And I think that's really sort of what we see as the end goal here, which is We Walk, isn't just, you know, we're not just making a hardware device for the sake of making a hardware device. Anyone can make a hardware device, let's be real here. But rather really shifting the focus to the needs of our visually impaired community going, listen, we need some more tech, you know, we need more user engagement from the ground up sort of setting best practices for the visually impaired community, increasing awareness. And in the end, helping us reach this end goal of providing our visually impaired community with better access to everyday life. You know, better ability to undertake activities of daily living now, be it through a hardware device. like We Walk you through government intervention, be it through the indoor navigation system, you know, it's a f acet of things. Visually impaired people have multiple tools, you know, everyone's huge sort of disparity between what one person versus the other might use. So, you know, I really have to say that it's been incredible. And I think, u m, the engagements that we've been working on have really been helping us get towards this end goal.

Shelly: 16:22

I think with how this is advancing the technology for visually impaired and blind users and you having the government on board and Microsoft on board, I can only imagine that it's going to have a tumbledown effect of branching out into other parts of society. Say the Tube, the London Tube will change and have connections to the We Walk device. You know, so when they walk into the Tube, they, they are automatically connected to a system through, through their, uh, as well. So I will think that other groups will want to jump on board and just expand this throughout society, you know, and think of new ways. And you guys might even create other partnerships that you haven't even thought of yet.

Jean Marc: 17:09

I think the internet irrigation example is a really good one to actually show how, you know, this universal design, if you'd like for indoor navigation can trickle down to anyone with different needs. So it could be someone with a cognitive impairment who might need certain instructions to help them navigate a certain space. For instance, it could be a tourist that just simply doesn't know the language. Uh, it could be someone with a mobility impairment that might have specific access needs such as they might need to use an elevator instead of using an escalator, which our indoor navigation can point them to without having to rely on a staff member. So, you know, it really is this principle of if we can design a technology to work for one group of people, chances are it's going to for absolutely everyone else. I mean, who doesn't want to have more comfort working in you know, navigating indoors?

Shelly: 17:56

Absolutely. And that's why I'm so thrilled because even as a person with an amputation, you know, when we traveled to Germany, I was constantly looking for elevators and escalators. I expelled 90% energy just to walk every day. So I have to be smart as to how I travel. So knowing these things ahead of time, even for somebody that's a visual person, it would help me. So there's your next project? Jean Marc!

Jean Marc: 18:25

Um, yeah. It's, it's lived experiences of disability that sort of make us do what we do, right? Yeah. I even want to, you know, I want to take it back to the point you said, which is how much energy you expel to walk. Now, look not, everyone's going to be like that. You know, sometimes you're going to have, especially in the visually impaired community. Um, and I'm guessing it's the same for mobility impairment, which is there has to be a real desire for someone to want to undertake this activity. You have to accept your disability. You know, there's a total of seven stages of, of, of accepting your disability and learning how to cope with it, which is, you know, there's going to be denial. There's going to be anxiety. And only then once you've accepted it, there's a huge mental effort required, you know, just to get out there and mobile. And people just don't do that, you know, especially with visual impairment and understandably so, I mean, it's such a difficult thing to cope with, especially congenital diseases that takeout your eyesight, as you get older. You know, you see a lot of people that they just, you know, they had one bad experience or they realize that their eyesight is getting so bad. They need to expel extra effort to move that they just don't want to do it anymore. And it becomes a vicious cycle of an activity. You end up having people staying at home who were once active, but are no longer active because of the exponentially increasing mental effort. And then we move into the pandemic now where this extra isolation and visually impaired people can no longer get that physical assistance, which they typically need to navigate. It can be a really, really, really tough. And I'd say we're in a very privileged situation. I'd say you're quite privileged. I'm privileged as well, which is, you know, we've kind of accepted. We openly talk about our disabilities. But we've kind of found a way to cope them. We realize the mental effort, and that's not the case, as I said before, for a lot of the, the, you know, the, the wider community. And that's why not just technology such as We Walk, absolutely anyone developing technologies for people with a disability, you know, gets the utmost respect from me. I, it gets the utmost love from us on the team. You know, we're just part of an ecosystem where we're, we're a small part of a wider ecosystem of tools and devices helping others to reduce that mental effort, to reduce that anxiety when trying to navigate outdoor and one, which we're very fortunate to be in, for sure.

Shelly: 20:32

Yeah. Depression and anxiety seems to come hand in hand when you have a disability in our communities. And unfortunately it is what it is, but tools like this that create independence and getting us back out and being confident, being in the community is what this podcast is really all about. So I was really stoked when I found you guys that I really wanted to introduce the fact that there are tools and technology out there that can get you to go throughout the mall, throughout the subway station in New York or wherever you want to go. And it's, it's your decision as to how far you want to go and things like the, We Walk can get you there. Right?

Jean Marc: 21:12

Yeah. And that, that thing that you just said, which is it's your decision, right? You know, there's never going to be the perfect tool for absolutely everyone. Now, granted, we even say that We Walk, we're open to that. We're open to saying that, you know. Everyone gets to make their own choices on what tool is best for them. You know, I'm a cane user by day and, you know, God that took me a while to finally use that. And then a long can user by night, you know, we all have our different journeys or different story. It's just about being knowledgeable and knowing what's out there and knowing what tools work for you and finding the right tool that works for you. You know, that's why We Walk, you know, we're very strong with that philosophy. We're not like, all right, take a We Walk and absolutely all your mobility problems are going to be solved. Absolutely not. And if anyone tells you that, right on sells you a product that says, Hey, listen, if you take this tool, it's gonna solve all your mobility problems. You know, you're, it's like, you're going to be not visually impaired. Like they're lying to you, right? It just doesn't work like that. That's just not the case. But what we could do is inform our community, you know, we can engage with our visually impaired individuals. We can let them try We Walk, you know, which we're very open to doing. We can engage with our local councils and local government, which we're always trying to do with, We Walk, raise awareness, get more We Walks in people's hands just to try it. And if it works for you, which, you know, in most cases it does. And that's amazing, you know, that's like, wow, we've helped someone here. We've, we've genuinely changed someone's life! And if it doesn't then Hey, we, we listen and go, well, okay. We realize right now, this might not be the best tool for you, but what can we do? Or even what can others do to try to sort of shift you in the right direction? What would be the right product? What would be the right support that you would require? And that's a continuous starting experience for us. You know, it's not just the case of, Hey, we're doing all this sort of thing just to build a We Walk version, but it would constantly enhancing ourselves. We're acknowledging, you know, our shortfalls realizing where we can improve. And I can tell you this. I mean, maybe my team don't appreciate this as much as I do I guess, but because I'm also a doctoral researcher in visual impairments, as well as my work, We Walk, any conversation with a visually impaired person is super fascinating with me. It can be about absolutely anything. It could be about fear of falling, um, in a very specific location and the cognitive workload that that might have on you. Um, it could be talking about buses and improving accessible design. It could be talking about how we make, We Walk even better, you know, which we always love hearing. It's always a good discussion because any discussion with someone that's visually impaired with lived experiences with unique abilities, you know, is super interesting to us. Which is why it's say, you know, reach out to us, honestly, you know, maybe not at 4:00 AM in the morning, but Hey, maybe that's how interested we are in visual impairments. But if anyone to reach out to us and just ask us questions about, you know, living life, how to cope with VI, you know, how to use, We Walk, questions about We Walk and how we can help make technology better. You know, we're all for it. We're super interested in this sort of stuff.

Shelly: 23:57

Yeah. I know we say here, if you've meet, if you've met one amputee or one wheelchair user, or one person on the spectrum, you've met one person on the Spectrum.

Jean Marc: 24:09

Exactly. One person on the spectrum.

Shelly: 24:12

And I would, I would think that that is the same for the visually impaired community as well. Yes?

Jean Marc: 24:18

Yep! You have to remember that visual impairment, isn't just its own bubble of disability, but rather, you know, it usually comes with sort of other unique characteristics. You know, this could be, um, certain mobility impairments, you know, visual impairments, such as AMD age-related Macular Degeneration comes with older age that might naturally come with a mobility impairments. You know, it's, it's never just the case of your visually impaired. Therefore we can assign you to a category. Absolutely not. Every user has their own unique abilities on, voice over you know, as any organization designing tech for society, for disability and inclusion, you really need to have this widespread reach, you know, checking a range of individuals. You'll never make a tech that that matches everyone's needs. And if you try to make one piece of technology that matches everyone's needs, it's just not going to work. But rather really focusing down on either making one piece of tech for a very specific group of communities or designing for multiple, you know, sort of people on the spectrum within that community, but making sure your tech is customizable enough to meet those requirements. Again, We Walk, we try to do that. So we have uploads. So that's why we make our app free. So if you're not a cane user, you can download it. You have low vision mapping. If you're a low vision person, I know if you want to use your We Walk, uh, but you don't want obstacle detection, you disabled that you want to use a touch-pad, uh, not use obstacle detection or use it. You know, we kind of try to do that, but we recognize it's a continuous learning journey. You know, we have to keep fine tweaking it. You know, now we're talking to people that are deaf blind, we're thinking, Hey, we, you know, when we first designed, We Walk truth be told, we didn't think of the deaf blind community. You know, we were so engrossed in our sort of let's make this for users that are usually completely blind cane users that now we're like, Oh wow! You know, here's a community which can really benefit from this. How do we do it? And that's an exciting thing for us. You know, we, we see different users with different abilities as an exciting challenge, you know? As a real potential for innovation and growth. Now we don't see it as, Oh, we didn't think of designing for these guys or, Oh, these guys have different abilities. How will we do this? Well, we generally go, wow, here's another group of people we can actually help. You know, here's another group of people that we can genuinely assist in their day-to-day life. So it's, it's very, um, I know there's so many times in this podcast now and I do it in all these conversations, but I hope you can hear it in my voice, but it genuinely is so exciting! Like it gets us up in the morning going, who can we help today?

Shelly: 26:38

Yes. And your emails had reflected that over the last year that we've been talking as well, which is why I just kept waiting until the moment was right to get this on the air. So, um, you know, we talked about safety and people wanting to get out into the community, but to feel safe as well. Um, I believe that the, We Walk has some beneficial features for safety. Can you touch upon that at all?

Jean Marc: 27:07

Oh, for sure. So the primary one really is the obstacle detection. Um, I mean, that's sort of, it's really quite simple, right? So the white cane right now does great for stuff on the grounds, but it doesn't really tell you about those little hanging tree branches, you know, anything that might hit your chest or head. And, you know, we we've, we've all had stories like this. I've had my fair share of, um, you know, a slightly scarred nose is our co-founder Kursat, you know, that's sort of where the story came from with him walking with his cane and bumping into, um, I believe it was a telephone booth back in New York when he was there and leaving scars on his head. So just having that vibration, that extra bit of, Ooh, there might be something that I wish the bottom of your cane has missed. That's a big one and you can always set the distance for it as well. So you can set it well, right now we simplified it. So sort of men low, medium, and high, but the numbers are actually 80 to 165 centimeters. So you can have a very long breadth, essentially. You know, you can have, We Walk, picking up walls around you. You really want it to be super sensitive about it. And the way it works is you just walking down the street, you feel a vibration, you notice slow down, you swipe your cane a little bit more hope if there's nothing in front of you it's, can it be an upper head obstacle, duck down or sort of slightly move out of your way until it stops vibrating. So you kind of just learn how to manipulate and interpret these different vibration. And then of course, you know, apart from that, that's, I'd say our, our primary safety feature we've called the, you know, the general stuff to help you focus on the road to help you focus on your O and M rather than having to worry about, you know, taking out your phone, using your finger, to navigate a complex interface, rather than through, through simple swipes through a touch p ad. So navigation, for instance, you put your phone in your pocket, you focusing on where you're going. You can have a headset plugged into your phone. You can use, We Walks built in speaker if you'd like, u h, you know, totally flexible. You can select how often you get notified of turning directions and you just walk. And you're using the best of your O and M. By this point, you're not getting distracted by too many notifications holding up your phone. So the compass is right. You can just put it away. We use the compass and We Walk. And just that confidence, just that extra bit of, you know, what I've got my obstacle detection, got my navigation running. I'm all good. Basically, I've got a one hand free, so I can use that to sort of f eel out any obstacles if I feel that there might be an obstacle there and you're good to go. And I, I, you know, we honestly feel it's like, it's so simple, but it has such a big impact. And t hen it's great.

Shelly: 29:30

What does O and M mean for the sighted community? Cause I don't know what that is.

Jean Marc: 29:35

Oh, of course. I know we, we, we throw the term around a lot, but yeah, so it's Orientation and Mobility. So a lot of visually impaired people, um, especially here in the UK, it's worldwide, you know, and is a very worldwide recognized thing. It's like the bread and butter of anyone that rehabilitates and learns how to deal with t heir visual impairment and the aim of Orientation and Mobility training is to get you to mobilize more independently. So it equip you with the tools and training required, u m, to let you number one, deal with your visual impairment i n a proper and safe way, but also to get you to just do things and day-to-day life to seek employment, you know, to be confident enough to get out there, do your own shopping, you know, use your own public transport, y ou k now, a nd it varies from country to country. But i t usually starts with teaching you how to get o ver well, how to deal with and how to cope with a visual impairment. You know, it could be through s ight l oss rehabilitation. And if you're blind since birth, you know, way earlier on, t hen you'd be, you know, it's a different program. It varies really, really does vary. But you know, it can include things like teaching you what specific features mean, u h, on r oadsides, for instance, how to crossroads, how to use your hearing, h ow to look for windshields, for instance, how to listen for bus stops, how to listen for buildings, you know, loads of different things, basically. It's how t o use your senses to the maximum capacity, as well as the tools around you and your l ocal to navigate independently. And that's why I sort of go back to We Walk, which is the white cane for people that need it a nd, and, you know, O a nd M training, which i s, i t's a critical part of it. Usually we will, isn't meant to change that. So you're still going to go into O and M training. You're still g oing t o have to learn how to use your cane, right? You're still g oing t o have to learn what the right technique is such as two point touch or continuous contact. Y ou're s till g onna have to learn all that stuff. You know, We Walk, doesn't just sort of s how u p and go, you don't need O and M training a nymore. C ause we give you all the tech. Absolutely not. Y ou k now, you're still learning the basic cane technique. You're doing everything there. It's just that you have a different handle. That's i t really.

Shelly: 31:27

Once somebody gets really great at using the We Walk, are they able to listen to music like through Pandora or something while they're using the We Walk or is that too much sensory overload?

Jean Marc: 31:42

So you could, I have to say, that's not something we'd recommend at all. Usually when you're sort of out and about, at least me personally, I'd have one of your phone in, um, you know, I just be listening to my surroundings and walking around, unless I'm super familiar with an area and I'm not seeking navigation because if I'm familiar with an area I wouldn't need navigation and maybe I might be a bit cheeky and have two ear phones in and sort of listen to music as I go along. But for We Walk, you know, we would just say, I, you know, as with any visually impaired person navigating, you know, we would say focus on your environment, listen out for people around you, listen out for the navigation instructions you could, if you want to, if you really wants to, I mean, We Walk just provide the occasional instruction. You can open up your Spotify, Pandora, you know, play music through your, your piece. If you wanted to know that We Walk, speaker, it just sort of your connected Bluetooth headset or through your phone speaker, but we wouldn't. Yeah, we wouldn't, we wouldn't recommend doing that.

Shelly: 32:35

In thinking about listening to your surroundings, how does the we walk or how well does the, We Walk, work in say a mall or a loud airport or a square during the holidays that has lots of music and noise.?

Jean Marc: 32:51

So it has to be said, you know, any speaker based device in a really crowded area is not gonna work that well. Uh, and We Walk as a different, I mean, we have a speaker, a reasonably powerful speaker built into it, but you know, if you're walking down a really busy street, you probably want to have the headset in. But we've designed it for that specific purpose. So say you're walking, you know, so you're walking down a quiet street, right? We Walk speakers is going to be perfectly serviceable, but if you get to a busy area, then we've yeah. We've, we've provided you with the options to change that. So if you have a Bluetooth headset connected to your phone, your phone will intelligently stop sending sound to We Walk and we'll send all of, We Walk, sounds your headset. So you can use a bone conducting headset, a Bluetooth headset. You can even plug in your headset if you wanted to, to your phone. If it's got a headphone jack, you know, that ancient technology, I'm joking. I, I missed the headphone jack a lot!, Great tool. Uh, you know, if you unplug your headset, then it goes straight to, We Walk. If you disconnect your, We Walk and just use it like a standard cane and you want to use your phone speaker, can do that as well. You can get all the sound that would have gone to come out of your phone speaker. So you really can choose exactly what you want when you want it.

Shelly: 34:00

Perfect. So I often forget where I've put my phone. What happens if you forget where you've put your We Walk? Is there a find my We Walk device? Like on i Phones?

Jean Marc: 34:15

Yeah. I'm glad you, I'm glad you brought this up. It's one of our simplest features, but it's so simple that we never really bring it up in our like really techie podcast. So we're here talking about like our advanced R and D and using AI for the gyroscope and all that. And sometimes we forget to mention, actually, wait a second. This is like the simplest feature, which we all love. Like we all use it, I use it,. But we just don't really talk about it because it's so simple. So we do have that feature. So if you have your We Walk connected to your phone and we envision a situation where you just connect you, We Walk and forget about it. So you connect it in the morning. It's going to hit for the day you disconnected it at night, and I charge it up, do whatever you want. Um, but once it's connected, you can use your, We Walk to find your phone. So you double tap the touch pad, swipe to find my phone, tap it. Your phone will keep ringing until you find it. Alternatively, if you've lost your cane and want to find it very quickly, just open up the, We Walk app on your phone tap, Where's My, We Walk?, And your We Walk make a sound. So, you know, really simple, but super useful. Yeah.

Shelly: 35:11

So I need you to tell our listeners where somebody can find out more about this great technology.

Jean Marc: 35:17

Oh, for sure. So I'd always say the first place is our website. It's always improving, always growing. We've got our support pages there. We've got our contact details there, our support email, which is the best way to reach us. You know, we have our, you know, the phone. So all John, all those guys, lovely customer support team, you know, they will be, th ere w i ll a nswer your questions. Sometimes if it's a super technical question, if it's a feature request, it comes straight to us. It c o mes s traight to me, come straight to our Software Product Manager or Hardware Product Manager. You know, we're a team th at, that really circulates user feedback, u m, t hroughout the entire team. So that wo uld b e the best way, yo u k n ow, th at'd b e the best starting points. And then, yeah, it could be something as simple as buying a We Walk, which you ca n d o from a w ebsite. It could be something as simple as asking us a b asic question. It could be more detailed feedback. We're always happy to listen.

Shelly: 36:06

Perfect. And with that, I'm going to say that that is it for today's episode of DisAbility Talks. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today and to Jean Marc, thank you for joining us and introducing everyone to this technology that promotes independence for millions all over the world.

Jeam Marc: 36:21

Thank you, Shelly. You know, I really appreciate the opportunity to, um, you know, talk to your listeners about We Walk into, um, you know, if you're not visually impaired, at least shed a light on visual impairment and some of the interesting technology that's being developed in our space. Um, yeah, can't really say anything more, but thanks again.

Shelly: 36:37

Thank you. Join me again next time and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. So you never miss an episode of DisAbility Talks.

Music: 37:03

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Outro: 37:07

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of disability. Talks want to keep the conversation going then visit our website@abilitiesinmotion.org or connect with us on social media. And remember don't dis my ability.