Jessica Ping-Wild talks Dating, Daring, and Disability

In this episode, we chat with Jessica Ping-Wild of Chicago, Illinois, a disability advocate, freelance content creator, and University of Notre Dame graduate with dual degrees in English Literature and Business Economics. You’ll be captivated by Shelly and Jessica’s candid conversation on dating with a disability and the  difficulties of finding accessible employment opportunities, especially in the current COVID-related unemployment crisis. Jessica shares her personal journey through waves of self-doubt and confidence while navigating coming of age with a disability and finding her voice as an advocate.

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Transcript

Intro: 0:03

Welcome to Disability Talks, a podcast produced by Abilities in Motion. I'm your host, Shelly Houser. Join us for real conversations and no-nonsense talk from everyday people with disabilities living their most independent everyday lives. Tune in for the latest news surrounding disability, accessibility, and independence, where conversations aren't dissed and stories that need to be told aren't missed. So let's talk!

Shelly: 0:31

Welcome back, listeners. I am your host Shelly Houser, and this is another edition of Disability Talks. Today's guest is Jessica Ping-Wild from Chicago, Illinois. Good morning.

Jessica: 0:41

Good morning.

Shelly: 0:42

I've followed you for a little while now, and you're a disability advocate, a freelance content creator, and you graduated from Notre Dame. Is that right?

Jessica: 0:50

That is correct. Yes.

Shelly: 0:52

Tell me a little bit more, tell our listeners a little bit more about you.

Jessica: 0:55

Sure. Well, I graduated in 2019 with a degree in English Literature and Business Economics, and after graduating, I did the whole, like I worked actually for my alma mater in their development department for awhile. I loved it. Um, but then I got married and I was supposed to move to London, but that didn't happen because of COVID. So now I do the whole advocacy and blogging thing and working on that. So---

Shelly: 1:24

How many followers do you have?

Jessica: 1:25

Um, across all platforms, close to 10,000.

Shelly: 1:30

Wow. That's a lot. I don't know how you do it. So we got to talking, we're from different generations basically, and my experience growing up seemed to be very different than your time growing up, basically a generation later. So I wanted to have you on, since we are both persons with similar disabilities, how it was for you growing up under the American with Disabilities Act.

Jessica: 1:52

Yeah, I think one thing for sure is that I didn't even really know that there was like a law protecting me until I was much older, like maybe late middle school, high school age. Um, and so I didn't really see kind of the, almost the games that were getting played behind the scenes like that come with a law being in place, if that makes sense.

Shelly: 2:14

Yeah.

Jessica: 2:14

Um, but there's definitely been interesting and problematic times over the years. That's for sure.

Shelly: 2:21

What kind of benefits did you experience like in your everyday life as far as accessibility, and did the school system arrange things or change things up for you?

Jessica: 2:32

Yes. I think that is probably one of the biggest, I can't speak a hundred percent, but I think that has been a huge change probably is the education system, where as somebody with a physical disability, I was in all of the like normal, I guess one would maybe say classes, they didn't pull me out into any like Special Ed. classes just for having a physical condition, which I know, from a lot of other people's stories has not always been the case. And so for that, I am grateful because I, I loved school. School was one of the few things that I really thought I had going for me when I was young. That's kind of my outlet. I didn't always have a lot of friend, and so I was really into academics and learning new things. And I think the other really big thing that my school did, uh, growing up my elementary school was they moved my classrooms around for me. So my third, fourth and fifth grade classrooms were all supposed to be on the second floor of the building, um, and would require me to walk up two flights of stairs multiple times during the day, you know, for recess, for lunch, for P.E,. for art, all the things that were on the first floor. And I did it, actually, my third grade year and my prosthesis with the skin condition I have, um, with my disease, I have something called Child Syndrome. It affects limbs and skin on one side of the body, uh, with the skin condition I have on top of the amputation, it was just walking up those stairs every day, multiple times. I couldn't do it after a while. And so the school shifted around all the classrooms and my fourth and fifth grade room were down on the ground floor. And honestly they didn't put up much of a fuss about it, which I'm really grateful for.

Shelly: 4:23

Yeah. And with your level of, of amputation, whether it was congenital or acquired later, you expel about 60%- 70% more energy just to walk. Yeah. I expel being a hemipelvectomy 90% to 100% more and there's a whole statistic out there of different levels of amputations and how your body will change. But this is part of the conversation I wanted to have because growing up when I was in elementary school or even high school, I went down five steps to the basement instead of going up a long flight rather than being included myself. And I'm only an amputee. So your generation is much more lucky. They took the ADA, they took it more seriously and they looked at inclusion much more clearly than they, than they did when I was in school. Um, I'm glad to see that society has taken on more of a social model rather than the medical model, which is very, very different. The medical model is like, you need to be fixed and we're here to fix you because we're the able-bodied community.

Jessica: 5:29

Yes. I agree a hundred percent with that.

Shelly: 5:31

We'll get there someday one day.

Jessica: 5:33

Someday, hopefully.

Shelly: 5:34

Yeah. So you and I talked about stigmas and ablest language and our favorite word that we love to hate. So tell us what you feel about ablest language and some really offensive words that need to just go away and what you want our listeners, able-bodied and disabled, to know about ablest language.

Jessica: 5:55

Yeah ablest language makes up so many different words that are used so frequently in our society, and even some like the word"crazy" has become so popularized by the mainstream media that you hear it, and you're not even necessarily like fully aware that it has all of these negative connotations. And I think that's what I really want share with people is it's time that we start taking ableism seriously as like a discrimination. And I think that is really lacking in our society on all fronts is that people just truly don't look at ableism in the same way that they look at other the other isms, if I'm totally honest, and so educating yourself on,"Hey, what words should I really avoid?" And I know one that you and I have talked about previously is the word"cripple" and kind of all of the different, u m, versions of that, whether it's the past tense, the present tense, all of those things. So, u m, I think that is the first step is people really taking the time to understand what words they should be avoiding in casual conversations to make the world more inclusive just with language.

Shelly: 7:12

Yeah. Do you use person first language when you talk about yourself?

Jessica: 7:18

I try to, but I'm not necessarily as good at that as I probably should be.

Shelly: 7:23

Did you always have a voice?

Jessica: 7:25

It's funny because it's come and gone a lot, I think. Like, I think when I was young and through most of middle school, I did, I was very boisterous. I was like, I deserve everything that everybody else has and blah, blah, blah. And I was, I don't know. And then high school came and there was a lot of bullying. There was a lot of like discrimination and I was like, all right, let's go back in my shell. And then at the end of high school, my senior year, I was like, no, I'm going to be loud again. And I brought that with me to college and I had an issue at college and the university admin massively shut me down. And then I was like, all right, I'm going back in my shell again until now. And now I'm on social media. So---

Shelly: 8:03

Is there a term that able-bodied society, uh, listeners should be using? We talked about the history of the word"handicapped" and what that means, where they used to take your cap off for money sitting as a beggar, um, and handing the cap to you for money. So that's a very old, outdated term as well. But is there, for our listeners that are trying to grow and learn about these things, is there a term that you prefer hearing or using?

Jessica: 8:35

I would say that in almost every situation, especially if you can easily put in, Oh, well that's the disabled, the handicap, the crip stall, like in the bathroom saying it's the accessible stall because providing access is what it's doing. Let's, let's focus on its actual like purpose instead of necessarily the negative mindset that people have towards those types of, um, very helpful needs. So I would say that's something that I would really wish people would start using more of is the word"accessible". Um, and then disabled in general, I, I very much push the word disabled as being a word that had--it should be reclaimed by the disability community because that is just, it's what we are. It's our identity. It's very much like, um, in the past how the word"gay" was such like a negative like insult and now disabled has taken on that role. And I think it's really important that we reclaim that word and make it our own and really fully identify with it.

Shelly: 9:45

And how much do you love when you see a bunch of able-bodied teenagers, all squirreled into the accessible stall, changing, you know, changing, you're just taking up the space, and you seriously have to use it?

Jessica: 9:56

Oh my gosh. I--with COVID, I've not really experienced it a whole lot lately, but I just remember before COVID, that was such an issue for me. So, it's very frustrating.

Shelly: 10:09

Yeah. I think society really needs to take on a perspective of living their life for even a day in our shoe and, and understanding what we go through, um, and, and showing more empathy, not sympathy, but empathy and, um, acceptance. So, uh, part of what I do is train some college university, primarily nursing, students, and, um, and work on this language, work on this understanding of how with grace and empathy to discuss the elephant in the room, so they, as medical professionals moving forward, we'll have, um, more knowledge and understanding and confidence in, in working with persons with disabilities, primarily amputees, um, as, as they go out into the world with their, with their medical careers. So, um, growing up in your time versus my time, what do you think the biggest societal changes have been, um, that you've seen even, even growing up from when you were younger to, to now? Has it gotten better? Is it still the same?

Jessica: 11:18

I think one of the biggest societal changes that I've really noticed with regards to disability has actually been representation in some ways. It's not great. It's still not great, and I'd need to put emphasis on that, that it needs to be like 1000% better, but now at least in TV shows and in movies, I might see a disabled character kind of in the mix, even if they're a background character, even if they have no lines, they're just like in like the school scene, like you can see them like in dance scene, like over here in the background. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's wild. That's truly wild because growing up, I never saw myself represented on TV at all. And the first time I remember seeing it was actually with the TV show, Glee, and then I came to find out like a year into the show that the kid that portrayed that character wasn't even a person with a disability. And that bugged me to no end, it still bugs me to this day. There's just so many things. Um, but I think representation is the thing from childhood until now that I've really seen a huge step forward, and, and part of that might be because I've really entered the disability community too with my advocacy, but I think in general, there are more companies and more outlets kind of featuring people with disabilities.

Shelly: 12:40

I think you're right. And we need authentic representation in Hollywood. So I don't know if you know, but I wanted to inform our listeners that the disability community is the most marginalized, um, minority in the world. We are at about 61 million of us worldwide. And we are the most marginalized, underrepresented, um, community that touches every age, class, race, sexual identity, um, whether it's a mental or physical disability. And we are underrepresented in every aspect, politics and entertainment, employment, housing, um, marriage in every, every aspect. So, um, get with it, society. I think that would be my, that would be my final word on that, but I think this is a good time to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back with Jessica Ping-Wild.

AD: 13:41

Abilities in Motion is a Pennsylvania-based nonprofit organization dedicated to helping individuals with disabilities live their lives on their own terms. Abilities in Motions strives to eliminate psychological stereotypes, physical barriers, and outdated attitudes that prevent social and civic inclusion as well as promote the independent living movement to empower, educate, and advocate for individuals with disabilities. For more information about programs and services Abilities in Motion provides, call(610) 376-0010, or visit our website at www.abilitiesinmotion.org.

Shelly: 14:19

Thanks listeners for joining us today. We are with Jessica Ping-Wild from Chicago, Illinois, and we're going to get back to the questioning. Jessica, how was dating and being recently married, like for you as a person with a disability?

Jessica: 14:33

Dating took on many different stages in my life. Um, in middle school, it was kind of the first time I was introduced to dating. Uh, cause that's when all my friends kind of started getting boyfriends and whatever that meant when you're 12 years old, but that's when they started like dating. And I was like,"Oh my gosh, in order to fit in, ause that's all you care about when you're 12, 13, I'm like, in order to fit in, I have to have a boyfriend. And so I just, like, I tried so hard to just really fit into the mold that was created at my school, like wear the right clothes, act the right way, but stand out in my own, like cute and like flirty type of way. And it didn't work. It was a nightmare, and I was not myself at all. Um, and then high school came and I got really busy and it wasn't that I was opposed to dating. I would have been interested. Um, and I definitely would flirt and get excited about guys, but I just didn't ever put in like the same efforts, I guess, that I did in middle school. I was just, I truly was just very busy in high school. And then college came around and I was like, all right, it's time for me to like really take this seriously now, like I'm getting older, like I have very little experience in this realm, like it's time to start that, and so I started the whole online dating experience, um, which was really interesting and it was something that I was really nervous to do, as someone with a disability. And I remember right off the bat, I was like, I will not be a catfish. I am going to show pictures on my profile of my amputation. I'm going to make it as clear as I possibly can. And it was always amazing to me how many messages I would get that would be like, it took me five minutes to see it. And I'm like, okay, thanks for sharing. I always knew that that was like, not going to be the match. I was like, okay, thanks. I was like, ah. But I think when I met my husband, I remember still being very nervous and I still wasn't very sure of myself. And in a lot of ways, I still have a lot of insecurities that kind of society puts on to these like mix of people with disabilities and able-bodied people dating because you are thought to be this person who needs all this extra care all the time and that your partner/spouse or whatever stage of the relationship you're in is performing all of these excess duties and like pretty much just helping you live life, and that's just not the case. And I don't know, there's always been a lot of like anxiety with that kind of throughout my relationship with my husband, and we've always been very open, very honest about it. And I think that's what was different than a lot of my other relationships in the past is that I could bring up like, Hey, I'm feeling anxious about this particular ablest thought, can we talk about it? And that just, I don't know, I married him. So it worked out.

Shelly: 17:29

Yeah. And congratulations, because you're fairly newly married, right?

Jessica: 17:32

February of 2020.

Shelly: 17:35

Quite a year. I know growing up, I had a lot of guy friends and I was grateful for that because they were more open and accepting just to kind of hang out with me. But when it came to dating me or taking me to the prom, that was a whole other level that they were not going to be discussing. College, I think college is when I really, that, that stigma and that reserved bias, it kind of dropped away a little bit. And I dated a lot in college, which was good for me. It was good for them to learn. I, um, had some really great relationships and I ended up marrying a friend from college and, um, just celebrated 24 years, so that that's working out pretty good for me.

Jessica: 18:17

Congratulations, Oh my goodness, congrats.

Shelly: 18:20

But a lot of our listeners and closed pages that I follow on social media, they're really concerned about dating. Um, and will they find somebody that will accept them as they are? What would you say to people that, that are worried that they're never going to find someone that's really going to be open and accepting to who they are and what their needs are?

Jessica: 18:44

It can be very stressful. Cause I definitely, like I said, I still struggle with like these kind of very ablest like background thoughts sometimes. Like, do I really deserve my husband? Do I really deserve to have a partner? And so it's difficult and I'm not going to sit here and be like, Oh, just know your worth, know what you believe in, because it's not that simple. And as much as I want to shout from the rooftops that you matter and you deserve love, it's one thing to say it and it's another thing to believe it. So I think the biggest thing that I would suggest for people is to really work on that self-love factor first and recognize that you not only deserve a partner, but you deserve a partner that will be that rock for you. Not necessarily from a medical standpoint, I'm talking about will be that person that you can go to with all of your fears, your insecurities, your emotions, everything, and your medical stuff. If that is a part of what you're going to need out of a relationship, you should be able to have it all and not settling for something less than what you deserve, because you're afraid that you'll never find anybody else that cares even a smidgen about you, because that is not good for either party in that relationship for sure.

Shelly: 19:59

I think that persons with disabilities have proven and the employers and partners and just friends really need to understand that we are phenomenal problem solvers. Are we not?

Jessica: 20:11

Yes, we are.

Shelly: 20:12

We adapt ourselves to the world every day. What would you say to able-bodied persons that are wanting to date a person with physical or mental disability, um, but they have these concerns, you know, what would you say to them to kind of get them over that, that anxiety or that concern about it?

Jessica: 20:31

I think one thing to know is that just like every relationship things will progress as they progress and conversations will be had as they need to be had. I don't think anybody with a disability is going to be at a space where they maybe, I shouldn't say anybody, but most people with disabilities are not going to be in a space where they're going to hide anything from a significant other, because they want it to work just as much as the other person does. So I think it comes down to if you have questions, ask, because especially if they're going to be things that you know you're going to be involved in, it's okay to ask, as long as you ask respectfully and you ask at this point where you're not coming from like a condescending tone or being like, well, you will need all this help. So where do I fit in or anything like that? Just coming from it as like, all right, we're equals here. What, what exactly are you going to need from me? What does our future look like? Asking in that type of way that it's more of a partner discussion rather than fishing for curiosity's sake, or for the sheer fact of just like, I don't know, being almost manipulative. I feel like I've seen that in relationships before. So that would be my thing is it's okay to ask. It's always okay to ask as long as you do it in the right way and at the right time.

Shelly: 21:52

Absolutely. Yeah and, and that whole respect thing. I mean the person, you know, the partner, the spouse wants to be respected. Why, why not respect us? I think you're so incredibly right with that. um, colleagues that I know out in the community and, and my friends personally, that I know that have disabilities. I mean, they are just as active in some way as their partners. There's things that I could do that my husband just cannot do. And the bottom line is nobody's perfect. Anyway, moving on, you've done some work with a blog for the National Disability Employment Month, and you've done some other really great work out there as far as disability advocacy. Tell our listeners more about that.

Jessica: 22:33

Sure. With the National Disability Employment Month kind of blog posts, I was debating whether or not to do something with that just because I had already done a disability pride month. And I was like, is it going to be too similar when I was like, no, it's not because they serve very different purposes. Um, and unemployment rates and labor force participation rates for people with disabilities are among the lowest in the country. They are so low. And especially during COVID, they're just ridiculous. I know as somebody who lost her job due to COVID, it was very difficult. I had to move back home because I was supposed to move to London, all of that. So I'm back in my hometown, my very small hometown and finding work here that is accessible has been impossible. I I've tried, I looked, I applied to like 50 different things, including like receptionist positions and other things that I thought I could do. But the reality is there's just not as many jobs applicable to people with disabilities and that's through no fault of our own. Like, I can't go be a shelf stocker at Walmart because I can't lift heavy boxes with my one foot and my shortened arm. I can't lift things the same way other people can. So that's just not a viable job for me. So I thought it was important to showcase like, Hey, no, we need to talk about how unemployment really is affecting disability community. And so that's why I wrote that blog post. And that's kind of the mindset I take on whenever I write a very advocacy specific blog post, because not all of them are that I do for my blog, but, um, ones that I really try to put out there that are related to that, I try to always solve a problem and really like focus in on, okay, how can I educate, but also expand the minds of people as well.

Shelly: 24:23

Our final question is how can our listeners, or where can our listeners find you out on social media so they can learn more and check out your videos?

Jessica: 24:32

Yeah, I, on every platform except for Twitter, I am@therollingexplorer. And then unfortunately Twitter has like a character limit, so there I'm just@rollingexplorer.

Shelly: 24:42

I want it to end for our listeners a quote that I found on your one of your social media pages, um, that I thought was really reflective of how our lives growing up and the perceptions of who we are as women with disabilities has really changed from, from your generation to my generation. And, um, so I thank you for this quote because it reminds me of, of who I really am and what I need to be, if I look back at my younger self. And in some ways I look at you as my younger self, um, the quote is:"Be the kind of woman who never asks permission to be herself." So thank you for that because growing up, I would have never allowed myself or society would not have allowed me to believe in that quote and to find encouragement and empowerment in that quote. And I think that's a wonderful reflection of how society is changing, um, for your generation and moving forward. So thank you for that. So with that, I'm going to thank Jessica Ping-Wild from Chicago and all of our listeners out there. Thank you for listening, and please join us again for another edition of Disability Talks.

Speaker 1: 26:12

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Disability Talks. Want to keep the conversation going? Then visit our website at abilitiesinmotion.org, or connect with us on social media. And remember don't diss my ability.